This week’s podcast guest is Katie Baric, Executive Director at Hands on Peru—a nonprofit organization in Peru and the US, created as a response to the deep inequities in access to medical care among the rural poor of Peru. Hands on Peru is a medical center that provides a range of basic medical services, from dentistry to ultrasounds.
The organization also has a mission to serve as an educational platform for students and medical practitioners from around the world. Katie invites listeners to reach out to her at katie@handsonperu.org to learn about opportunities for visiting and working with the organization to learn about pioneering public health theory into practice.
During the episode, Katie also highlights the launch of Chimuk, a social enterprise empowering local women through knitting, and the impact of these initiatives on the community’s health and wellbeing.
Download and listen to the episode to hear about:
- How Katie came to co-found Hands on Peru.
- Katie’s and James’ introduction at the Lifestyle Medicine Conference in Mexico City, and why they were inspired by the unique conference format that modeled the principles of lifestyle medicine.
- Peru’s practices during the COVID-19 pandemic.
- And much more!
Please tune in to learn about opportunities to travel to Peru to participate in this community development and healthcare initiative.
Katie Baric:
So, these doctors would put together diabetes education, we’d have everyone come sit down, yeah, sit down, sit down. We’ll take your glucose and teach you about diabetes. So, these doctors are giving diabetes education and the people just get up and walk out. And I’m standing in the back and I’m watching two months of people just up and leaving, “oh, I have to cook, I have to do this.” And I’m thinking, this is not the way to do health education. If I’m having people up and leave, that’s a very clear sign that we’re doing it wrong.
James Maskell:
Welcome to the Evolution of Medicine podcast, the place health professionals come to hear from innovators and agitators leading the charge. We cover the latest clinical breakthroughs and health technology, as well as practical tools to help you transform your practice and the health of your community. This podcast is brought to you by the Lifestyle Matrix Resource Center, who provide a range of options to help you deliver successful, effective functional and integrative medicine. To find out more and to get started, go to goevomed.com/lmrc. That’s goevomed.com/lmrc.
James Maskell:
Hello and welcome to the podcast. This is an incredibly inspiring way to start our year of transformation here at the Evolution of Medicine podcast. I’m going to speak to Katie Baric. She is an MPH that has lived in Peru for the last decade and has built as a co-founder of Hands on Peru. It’s a clinic, and now they have new ways of bringing in revenue. So many interesting topics. If you are passionate about educating people and you realize that talking down to people is not the best way to inspire them to participate in their own health, I think there’s incredible lessons for you here and incredible lessons about participatory empowered medicine, and that’s what we’re all about here at the Evolution of Medicine. Really inspiring half an hour, enjoy.
So, a warm welcome to the podcast for the first time. Katie Baric. Welcome, Katie.
Katie Baric:
Hello, hola.
James Maskell:
Well, Katie, I’m really grateful to have you here on the show and we are going to talk a little bit about the incredible work that you’ve done building a clinic and hands-on Peru and sort of an amazing story for our year of transformation. But I guess I just want to start by saying we met at the Mexican Lifestyle Medicine Conference back in October, and I brought some practitioners down there because I wanted them to one experience Mexico City because I think it’s one of the most vibrant and interesting cities in the world. And second that this conference was in my estimation from the time that I come before something new and exciting and interesting and special. And yeah, I guess I’d just love to get your reflection on that as someone who attended that conference and is interested in some of the things that we’re all interested in here, who listened to this show?
Katie Baric:
Yeah. Well first off, thanks for having me. I am super excited to have this conversation with you today. And yeah, I went to Mexico City for the Lifestyle Medicine conference and it was incredible. It was my first time in Mexico City, first off, just the city in general was alive. It was around Day of the Dead. There was so much culture around, the food was amazing. So the city itself was beautiful. And the conference, I actually, so I live full-time in Peru. I’ve been there many years. And so I’m a little out of touch I would say with the American conference style, but that definitely exceeded expectations and I think raised the bar for any conferences I may go to in the future.
It was incredible to not just hear them talk about holistic health, but also have them put it into action. We would take breathing breaks, we would take stretching breaks. Many of the workshops were meditations or workouts or more active engagement type workshops. And so not only did you go and you feel like you were learning about health and wellness, but you felt the health and wellness in you. And I think that that is the type of congruency that all wellness conferences should aim for, that somebody doesn’t leave feeling tired and information overload, but they leave feeling revived and energetic and ready to take on the world, which is how I felt upon leaving.
James Maskell:
Well, good. Well, that reflects my experience too, and I’m really grateful to have met you there. There was lots of interesting people, very cool experience. And yeah, I’m excited because that was, I had invited practitioners to come down there and I just think that experiencing a different kind of a conference or a different kind of a country in the medicine there is powerful to bring back to America and there’s so much to learn from other countries. So perfect for our conversation here today. So
Katie Baric:
Have, and the speakers were amazing. Shout out to the speakers. All of the speakers were so impressive and amazing, yourself included. And so that was also a really special part.
James Maskell:
Beautiful. Well, look, you have a master’s in public health and you have been involved in this organization hands on Peru for a long time, but you’re not that old. So how does that all work out? When did you start it and what inspired you to start hands on Peru and give us a little bit of the timeline here.
Katie Baric:
Yeah, well, let’s see. Right now we’re 2024 and I’m 32 years old, so we’ll move backwards. I built the clinic when I was 24. I started the nonprofit when I was 21, but I knew I wanted to get involved in global health and global poverty when I was 12. So as a girl, I went to Honduras with my dad and my church, and I got to see community development through public health. We would implement water filters, sanitation roofs and floors, scholarships for kids. And I kind of grew up understanding the bigger picture of global poverty. And I grew up in North Carolina in the United States, and I grew up with a roof over my head, food on my plate, a private school education. I grew up not having to worry about these things that I realize now much of the world struggles with. And so from a very young age, I knew I wanted to work in global health.
And then around my college years, around 16, 17, 18, I kept going back to Honduras and it was a passion of mine. And when I was 21, I went as a volunteer to Peru just thinking, oh, I want to be a physical therapist who also works in global health. And when I was a volunteer the very last day of my program, the coordinator of that program said to me, “Katie, I love what I do, but I don’t like who I do it with. I see you’re passionate about this. I need a new partner in the States. Do you want to be it?” And I looked at my life and I looked at what I was passionate about and I thought this aligns. So together we started Hands on Peru in 2013. And then in that meantime, I went and I finished my senior year at NC State. I went to the University of Pittsburgh for my Master of Public Health.
And we would have brigades of students go down to Peru and we would host pop-up health campaigns. And in three years we had over 100 volunteers. And it was just a part-time gig for me and for my partner Rosa. And in these pop-up campaigns, we were noticing people coming in with just the same problems. And it was very evident that there was a lack of education, a lack of outreach. And after I graduated with my Master of Public Health, me and Rosa sat down and said, all right, we’re either leaving this or we’re growing it, and we decided to grow it and we decided to build our own center. And that was in December of 2016, and that was about eight years ago. And since then, it’s been a journey of figuring out how to make the deepest best impact in the community possible. And so that’s kind of my story. I didn’t plan on starting so soon, but the opportunity arose and I didn’t squash it.
James Maskell:
Wonderful. Yeah, it’s unlikely that people have confidence in their own ideas at that age. What is it, do you think, that gave you the confidence to just say, okay, I’m going to do it? Because not a lot of 21-year-olds operate in that way.
Katie Baric:
So the confidence to start Hands on Peru, it was scary, but it was nice having a partner who already knew what to do down in Peru. So it’s not like I was starting from scratch. She had a little bit extra. She said, I have the host families, I have the hospital, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I just need volunteers. I was like, okay, that’s realistic. I can do that. And then after studying my Master of Public Health, which was a fantastic decision in my career path, I knew I wanted to live and work in South America, period. That was what I wanted. I wanted to have the full immersive experience. And I was down in South America, I was down in Peru, and I saw everything going on and it felt, why would I go back to the States, apply for a job with UNICEF or who and say, send me down to South America when I can just stay here. And all of this energy that we’ve already created, it doesn’t go to waste.
And honestly, it was the easiest decision. It was the easiest decision I’ve ever made deciding to build our own center. And we only needed, we had a little bit of our own savings. We needed about $50,000. And at the time I thought there’s definitely 50,000 extra dollars laying around some pockets in North Carolina. And we got it and we built the clinic and it never seemed out of reach. It always seemed like the logical next step. And I look back and I think like, wow, yeah, that was bold, but at the time I was thinking this just makes sense. It’s like the puzzle pieces fitting together.
James Maskell:
Well, tell us a little bit about the journey of the clinic, because I’m always interested in this cross section of health and community, and it sounds like that’s what you’ve been immersed in. So where did the clinic start in terms of services and how has it expanded over time and how have you innovated in getting education and support into the community? I know many doctors and practitioners take the core part of being a doctor very seriously and want to teach and have that as a big foundation of their efforts. So I just love to learn what this looks like in Peru.
Katie Baric:
So, Rosa, my partner, is a nurse, and I have my Master of Public Health. So she comes at it from the healthcare nursing perspective. I come at it from the prevention community health program perspective. So we combined both of our perspectives to create what we call center for public health. So we started by saying, we need to get people access to diabetes testing, anemia testing, cancer screenings, a bunch of preventative services, because prevention is just so lacking in Peru. You don’t go to the doctor just for a checkup once a year to see how you’re doing or where you’re at. And it leads to a lot of poor communities carrying this burden, the financial and emotional burden of disease. So how can we help lift that burden by giving them access to resources and education and primary care? So that was our initial, let’s get people access to preventative care.
We had three weeks of campaigns with volunteers to open up the clinic, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then the volunteers left. And I’m sitting in this clinic in January of 2017. All right, now, okay, we did it. We built it. We had our first couple weeks of campaigns like, okay, now. And so coming at it from the community perspective, I started saying, moms, moms, let’s get together. I knew I needed the women involved. You study online, the women are agents of change. Get the women involved. I knew I needed to have some sort of women’s program in our clinic. So I went up and down the streets knocking on doors being like, hi, I am Katie. I’m your new neighbor. I built that clinic down the street, come every Tuesday and Thursday. So the women started coming in little by little, and I always made it a joyful place.
People were always laughing. There was no chastising of anyone. I always just wanted people to be in there and laugh. And then when the kids started seeing it, they said, we want our own program. So we created a program for kids, and the little girls were like, we want our own program. So we created just a group for little girls. And so these community programs started kind of popcorning up because I was making an effort just to get to know the community and get them used to coming into the clinic for something that’s not a finger prick or some boring health education.
And at the same time, we were working with doctors from the local university, and they came in and they did checkups twice a week. So the first year and a half, we had two days a week we had doctors, and then we had three or four programs per week. And oh my gosh, there’s so much to say, but essentially getting people in and laughing was the best thing that we could have done. And then we realized, okay, they need health education. So these doctors would put together diabetes education, we’d have everyone come sit down, yeah, sit down, sit down. We’ll take your glucose and teach you about diabetes. So these doctors are giving diabetes education and the people just get up and walk out. And I’m standing in the back and I’m watching two months of people just up and leaving, “oh, I have to cook, I have to do this.” And I’m thinking, this is not the way to do health education. If I’m having people up and leave, that’s a very clear sign that we’re doing it wrong.
So that’s what reinforced the importance of the programs. So that’s what started our cooking class, bringing people in and not just talking to them about healthy nutrition, but actually cooking. The women kind of came in a little bit, a little bit, and then I said, what do you want? They said, we want to knit. So we brought them in. They actually started knitting. So the participation part of the health education, in my opinion, is the most important part. And having people engaged and active in their own healthcare journey, using their hands is super important. We’re talking about a low-income, low-education population. They’re not used to having a notebook and a pen and a pencil and learning that way. They need to learn with their hands. And that was our approach.
James Maskell:
Do feel like there’s a mismatch. Doctors get all of this education, and it’s all about preventing disease and looking at acute disease, and you don’t know what to do, and we know, so we are just going to tell you what to do and then you do it. But I just don’t think that people do well with that. And the opposite is this empowerment medicine where you are supporting them to do the things they already do in a healthy way. And there’s so much of what you’re saying there where I just feel like people don’t want to be talked down to, people don’t want to be told that they’re stupid, but they do want to participate in their own health. And it’s just that we’ve got the acute disease, infectious disease guys or that way of thinking being deployed to health prevention, and it’s a disaster.
Katie Baric:
And the benefits of learning in group too, it kind of takes off that immediate pressure too of, oh, we’re in this together. I’m not all alone in this. And I think that that’s important too. Health education and implementation science, it’s its own science. The doctors may have the information, but we need a whole kind of sect of talent and creativity to bridge that gap and help this patient and this doctor and help communicate that information. That’s not easy. It’s definitely not an easy task.
James Maskell:
So now the programs are going, obviously you were at this lifestyle medicine conference now, so what’s your journey been with the implementation of that? And then I’d love to get your experience of COVID too, because I’m sure, I think I remember that Peru had pretty intense lockdowns. Yeah. So tell me about the journey for lifestyle medicine and then that part of the journey.
Katie Baric:
Yeah. Well, so it definitely was very inspiring on what we can do to improve our baseline services. So right now in the clinic, we have dental and ultrasound and physical therapy and being at the conference that you realize there’s so much more educational themes that can be done in terms of easy access, wellness, for example, different breathing techniques, your vagus nerve, what can we do to simple things that can improve our lives? And so, at the conference I was like, oh, that’s a health education topic. I can do a special campaign. Oh yeah, that’s a cool perspective. I have it all written down in my journal, but it was definitely also inspiring to see other people on the same path. And I thought, these are the people who need to know about my clinic so they can replicate it or they can come and help us.
And it’s not just a one-day campaign helping us. Maybe it’s like, Hey, here’s all these materials in Spanish that you can use, or Hey, I’m willing to help set up this program with you for one month. Sometimes people say, oh, I want to help, and they only offer three or four hours of a day. Also, how can we collaborate in more of a sense that it takes a lot to set up programs, it takes a lot to set up services. So it was definitely inspiring to see what more can be done. Unfortunately, limitations exist in the world, and you have to work with the resources that you got, especially you have to work with the resources of the population too and their own capabilities. But yeah, COVID was a pretty gnarly thing in Peru. There was a lot of death, there was a lot of fear, just an overall misunderstanding of just how a virus propagates in general.
And a lot of weird social rules around COVID. For example, one week only men could go out Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and only women could go out Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and everyone had to stay in on Sunday, and the curfew was 4:00 PM and nobody could be out after 4:00 PM. So rather than having everyone be fearful, the idea is, okay, what can you do to protect yourself so that you’re not living in this fear? And so we were trying to do hygiene interventions and making sure that people have different things that they need to just do. Simple hygiene measures like wash their hands, use their masks, isolate the person who’s sick, relatively basic things. Yeah.
James Maskell:
I mean, it’s a different world in that, and I can imagine how being and what was it like for you being in another country? Obviously those people, well, and that’s your home, but did you ever feel like, oh, I’d love to be back in North Carolina right now?
Katie Baric:
Well, I was there for six weeks and then I said, I’m peacing out. And I actually went back up to North Carolina and spent the pandemic in the outer banks of North Carolina.
James Maskell:
I was in India when it all went down at the beginning, and I was like, oh, I better go home. And I had a friend who I had met in India who was like, oh, I’m just going to go to Goa and just relax through this. Now I’m in India. Goa is beautiful, I’m just going to do it there. And she was eventually sent back on a requisition flight back to the UK on a military grade aircraft because she was the last British person left in India. So yeah, I mean, it was an intense moment and especially intense to be away from family and in a foreign country, all that. I totally get that. Well, look, let’s talk a little bit about what’s up now, because when we met, you said you’ve got, you showed me some pretty cool hats. My hat, my head was too big, unfortunately.
Katie Baric:
Your head was too big.
James Maskell:
Note. I would actually also say that I had not had a haircut, and since then I have had a haircut, so my circumference has gone down a little bit. But yeah, look, you are wearing the hat now. So tell us about these hats, where they came from, what it does for you and how you sort of injected this sort of e-commerce energy into the project.
Katie Baric:
So not only am I a master’s in public health and in charge of health programs, but you have to remember, I’m a nonprofit director. I have to figure out funding for these programs and just keep coming back to social enterprise. Everybody says, where do you make all your money? Who gives you all your money? I’m like, I make a lot of the money. So you have to have the social enterprise view when you think about creating something in the first place. But when I started Chimuk, I was not thinking about social enterprise. I was thinking about how to get the women engaged in activated in their health because sometimes they came to our program, sometimes they didn’t. It was unstable. And I said, I need more stability in my participation rates. So I said, what do you want? They said, we want to knit. We went back to the States, had our second annual fundraiser, fundraised like $20,000. Came back. I started buying wool and I’m on YouTube 30 minutes before the first knitting class, how to knit 30 minutes before. I’m trying to learn how to knit so I can teach them later that day. Well, when the word got out that we were knitting, more and more women came, we started putting more structure to the program regarding attendance and participation and rules.
We brought in laptops. They learned together via YouTube and each other, and they just started knitting. And I was just excited to see people in my clinic every Tuesday and Thursday from four to six. I was just like, yes, they’re in here. They’re laughing. Great. It was Rosa’s idea who said, let’s put a brand on it. Rosa’s my partner, my business partner. And so we decided to put a brand on it and we started selling to the volunteers who came to visit us and they bought them and we gave the money to the women and we thought, Hey, wait a second. This is pretty cool. This is getting these women money now. And the women were like, Hey, I like this. I need money to pay for my food, for my children’s education, for medicine, for just basic things. The average monthly income in our community is like $150 to $200 a month, and that’s for a family of five. So it’s a very poor location. During the pandemic, it gave us an opportunity to concentrate fully on this brand. We rebranded it and we restructured the way that we do artisan payments. Essentially now the nonprofit Hands on Peru buys the product from the women each month. So the women are making monthly earnings, which they prefer. They don’t have to wait until someone sells a hat for them to earn the money, and they know how much they’re getting each month due to the products that they make.
James Maskell:
It’s more predictable for them, and they understand what they’re getting and they can sort of plan their life.
Katie Baric:
They can plan their life and they can negotiate with us too. It gives them an opportunity to say, no, I need more for this, or this takes up more time than you think it does. And so we negotiate a price. There’s a lot of trust between me and the women. They know I’m on their side, and I think that that’s why this brand has been so successful because there’s just a basis of trust there. And so we now buy the products from them and we sell them, and we improved our rule sourcing. We use 100% baby alpaca wool from Aquia. We use 100% cotton from Lima. And little by little, we’ve just created our own brand. We’ve decided, okay, what is a brand? Okay, we need specific styles and specific colors. Got it. All right, how are we all going to learn these styles? It’s been a journey, but now 17 to 20 women earn monthly income. They love the brand, they’re dedicated, they identify with the brand, and this could be in the hands of the right person or the right client. This could be a huge way to support not only these women, but also the different holistic programs that we offer in the clinic.
James Maskell:
Yeah. Oh, it’s cool looking too. I mean, I think maybe Peruvian.
Katie Baric:
Yeah.
James Maskell:
And they’re dope. They’re super unique. What’s the weather like there? Do you need a warm hat? Is in the winter? Is it cold?
Katie Baric:
Yes, I am in the north. We’re located in Trujillo on the beach up north about nine hours north of Lima. And in the winter months, which is typically July, August, September, October, it definitely gets chilly. You can wear a hat, but in the highlands of Peru and in the mountains, the Andes, I mean, yeah, that’s super cold. You definitely need some gear.
James Maskell:
You sell these hats to us. Audience mainly,
Katie Baric:
Most of our clients are people who visit us in Juan Chaco and they want to support local and there like the hat. And yeah, a lot of them are maybe not just us. There’s a lot of us and Europeans. And then we sell hats also in Lima at a Larco, a beautiful museum, a Delo, which is a really cool art store, and I’m assuming tourists and Peruvians buy them there. It’s kind of a mix. And then when I come back to the states, I’m always bringing back suitcases and boxes and I sell to people in the United States.
James Maskell:
Awesome. So if someone’s listening to this and they want to support and they want to get themselves a hat, what’s the easiest way to do it?
Katie Baric:
They can go to our website, shop chim.com. That’s shop C-H-I-M-U k.com. Chimu were named Chimu after the ancient Chimu civilization. The ancient Chimu civilization was a pre Inc in civilization from northern Peru, and they have a city called an ancient city called Chan. It’s an Adobe mud brick city, and it’s the largest Adobe city in the world. It’s a UNESCO world heritage protected site, and our clinic is literally located right on the outskirts, right on top of it. So we also pay homage to the land and the people who lived there for the thousands of years prior.
James Maskell:
Interesting. Yeah, I was watching,
Katie Baric:
Which is why we also have some of the designs. Look, I have this one here. This is a pelican, and so this pelican is also found on the walls of Chacha, and that’s important for us to preserve culture.
James Maskell:
Beautiful. Well, I’m excited about it. I guess give us an idea of just the scope at this stage. Do you have an idea of the nature of the impact that you’ve had as far as how many people have been served by the clinic and what the impact is locally and how many people are working in the organization now between the hat makers and the doctors and the practitioners and all that?
Katie Baric:
Our branch, Chimuk employs 20 women local. So we give monthly salary to 20 women who, and these are women from the community with low education levels, low income levels. This is really, really special for us. And the clinic employs about 20 health professionals and locals monthly as well, who carry out our services. We see about 70 patients per week on average between our services. And in the last 11 years, we’ve reached probably over 15,000 people with access to direct healthcare and we want to do more. We are working right now the 70 patients per week, and we’re working at about 60% capacity. So it’s my job to look for more funding to open up more shifts so that we can open up to more people, but we’ve been able to serve so many local people with essential and basic healthcare. I’m talking dental care, ultrasound for pregnant mothers, physical therapy for older people. This is very essential healthcare. And at this point, we’re in the thousands every year we can help about, we direct patient contact is like 3,000 minimum.
James Maskell:
Beautiful.
Katie Baric:
But we can do more just—
James Maskell:
Well look, I think this is a good time to share. The Mexico City trip was my first effort at doing some sort of, I guess travel for American and international health practitioners, and a few of them came down to Mexico City and we had some beautiful dinners and had some time together and obviously experienced something with that conference that was really special. And I’m feeling called to have this be the next one. I feel like, first of all, I’ve never been to Peru. I’ve only been to Brazil in South America, and I’ve been to Costa Rica and Panama, but not to South America. And second, I just think that in the same way that you were inspired by that visit when you were 12 years old, I’m about to have a 12-year-old, and I think she’s had a very exciting and healthy life experience here thus far. But I would love to flip that switch in her to see what she wants to do with her life. So what I’m going to share is that, yeah, if you’re listening to this and you’re inspired by it and you’d like to go to Peru, get in touch with Katie, and if we get enough people who say they want to go, we’ll set a date for 2025 and we’ll go and it’ll be great. So Katie, what’s the best way for people to get in touch?
Katie Baric:
They can email me at katie@handsonperu.org, K-A-T-I-E, and our website is www.handsonperu.org. There’s a lot of information on the website about our programs, our services we work with, I’ve worked with over 400 people bringing them to Peru. We work with a lot of students, a lot of dental students, med students, masters of public health students who come down and do volunteering, or I’m their supervisor for their capstone and internship. So we work a lot with students and I’d love to open the door to more healthcare professionals and so they can one inspire us and two, we can inspire them. And I think that having that opportunity is so essential for anyone who wants to widen their view of what does healthcare look like around the world and how realistically can I make an impact and how realistically can I support those who are working in this field as well, especially then young kids.
I went on my first trip at 12 years old and it set me up for success the best of my life. So if you’ve got a 12-year-old, I say bring her down, especially because Peru is awesome too. Peru is awe. I love living there. We live in a world surfing reserve. I get to surf every day. You’ve got the Andes Mountains, you’ve got the Amazon Jungle, you’ve got Machu Picchu and all these ruins. So not only do you get to come and see a really cool health project and kind of fuel that professional flame, but you can also have the adventure and the healing and the community part of just being in Peru in general. So we would do a little mix trip a couple days with me in the clinic and then a couple days through the Sacred Valley of Peru.
James Maskell:
Wonderful. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here. It was great to meet you. It was awesome. I really enjoyed the mix of people that were at the conference and yeah, just your story immediately captured me because especially like the participatory education, I really feel like that’s something that we’ve been talking about and pioneering here for a long time, and I just feel like your story really brings together the need for education to be delivered in a way that’s fun and exciting, engaging. I think we connected over the Vagus Fest concept because it has some of those elements in it, and just seeing that that is so necessary if you really want to make people feel encouraged, empowered, and supported as opposed to being told what to do and being told that you’re stupid basically, or the underlying message being that you’re not educated enough to take care of yourself. So I really appreciate that and yeah, I’m excited. This is a great way to kick off our year of transformation here at the Evolution of Medicine. It’s going to be a really exciting year. If this is anything to go by, this has been Katie Barrett from Hands-on Peru. We’ll have all the details in the show notes. I hope that we’ll be able to put together an adventure to Peru. But thanks so much for being here. This is the Evolution of Medicine podcast. I’m your host, James Maskell, and we’ll see you next time.
Thanks for listening to the Evolution of Medicine podcast. Please share this with colleagues who need to hear it. Thanks so much to our sponsors, the Lifestyle Matrix Resource Center. This podcast is really possible because of them. Please visit goevomed.com/lmrc to find out more about their clinical tools, like the Group Visit Toolkit. That’s goevomed.com/lmrc. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you next time.
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