In this live episode from the Institute for Functional Medicine Annual Conference, James Maskell sits down with Dr. Tracy Gaudet to unpack the evolution of whole health, the growing risk of paradigm “veneers” masking real transformation, and why the patient-practitioner relationship remains central to any lasting healing.
Tracy explains how true system change begins with a different kind of conversation – one that starts with a person’s purpose and meaning rather than their diagnosis – and why that shift produced measurable clinical improvements in her work with the VA. She and James also discuss the rising infighting among healthcare “tribes” (functional, integrative, lifestyle medicine) and the opportunity to synergize instead of stake out territory from a place of fear and scarcity.
The conversation turns to promising green shoots of change: land-grant universities like Virginia Tech stepping into community health leadership, and the first-of-its-kind Doctorate in Whole Health Leadership at Southern California University of Health Sciences (SCU), which Tracy helped design and James is now personally joining.
Whether you’re a clinician, health system leader, or an aspiring agent of change, this episode offers a grounded, honest look at what it will really take to humanize modern medicine.
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About the Guest:
Dr. Tracy Gaudet is a physician and national leader in whole health transformation, best known for spearheading the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs’ Whole Health System — one of the largest whole-person healthcare transformation efforts in the country. She helped design and now teaches in the first Doctorate in Whole Health Leadership program at Southern California University of Health Sciences (SCU), training clinicians, administrators, and educators to lead system-wide transformation toward humanized, whole-person care. Tracy’s work centers on shifting healthcare conversations from disease and diagnosis to purpose and meaning as the true foundation of lasting behavior change.
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About the Host:
James Maskell is a healthcare entrepreneur and founder of The Evolution of Medicine. For over 20 years, he has worked to scale functional medicine through community-driven models, group visits, and practitioner infrastructure. His work focuses on moving medicine upstream – toward prevention, lifestyle intervention, and systems-based care.
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Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/FunctionalForum
Evolution of Medicine™ Mission Partners:
TrueNeura: https://truneura.com
Fullscript: https://goevomed.com/fullscript
Big Boost Marketing: https://goevomed.com/bigboost
Freedom Practice Training: https://goevomed.com/fpc
Genova Diagnostics: https://goevomed.com/genova
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Transcript:
The culture right now is coming from a place of fear and scarcity- Yeah … as oppois- opposed to joy and abundance. And when you come from fear and scarcity, you start to stake out your territory and- Yeah … I think what the opportunity is is how can we, you’re a huge leader in this, how can we truly synergize and align?
Because really, all boats do rise. Yeah. And some people will come through one door. Some people will come through another door. But if we’re not, if we’re really building something collectively that is truly bigger than the parts, then we’re gonna transform. Hello, and welcome back to the Evolution of Medicine podcast.
We are back at the Institute for Functional Medicine’s Annual International Conference, and we’re speaking to leaders and innovators from across the spectrum who are bringing functional medicine to new and interesting places. And if you’ve been watching this show for a long time, you know that not only was my interview with Dr.
Tracy Gaudet last year part of the sh- the show that we created, but actually I recognized that it was probably, um, the most interesting and validating and valuable, uh, conversation I’d had because it, you have done so much to, uh, implement so many ideas that are really important to me, and that I think we just found a sort of a, a kinship in the way that we think about the world.
It was really special. It was a, a, a mutual, mutual fan club. Because I love your emphasis on community. Yeah. You know? Well, it’s been really reawakened, um, at this conference, and I’ve had some incredible interviews where I, I just really see that, uh, one, the different ways in which this can be delivered in community, all different ways- Yes
is, is, is wide and broad and, and, uh, growing. And that second, that if we really want to have a medical operating system that is built around function, we need to think about all the different ways that we could assess and build function- Yes … because ultimately It’s cool that we found a way to, that it works, and that- Yeah
when we do it through that system, it’s, it’s much better, and we’re proving out that that system is better. And yet, for this to become, for, to hit its potential, we need to find, you know, ways to do that, and that’s been something that’s been very enlivening for me at this conference and hasn’t always been, you know, here.
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. It’s, it’s been a really in- great shift, I think, to hear the conversation be, okay, how do we do this with the unhoused population? How does this look? You know, how do we shift these approaches to optimize, really optimize life as well as function? Yeah. Um, how do we do that where people live and work and play, and not just think about it through…
You know, as a physician, we think about it through the medical system. Yeah. And even if we get it right in the medical system, it’s not gonna be transformative. We, it’s only a part of the solution. Yeah. It’s not the whole solution, and moving this into community, and, is, is, gotta be the foundation of it, so it’s kind of exciting.
So another year has gone by. Yes, I know. And I know- We’re getting older, James … you find yourself, I know, in like, in community with leaders who are finding new and interesting ways to take whole health out there. Yes. And I’d love for you to share, you know, some of those stories, because, uh, it’s always so inspiring to hear people who sort of combine the will of wanting to do something different with a way of thinking that embodies the whole health vision- Yeah
that you have. Yeah. Well, you know, I think, I think what is exciting is, and also tricky, so I’ll talk about both if that’s okay, about the, the term whole health is getting adopted a lot of places. Like, I’m seeing it everywhere. Um, the, you know, the paradigm shift from my perspective that really is the driver for, um, the health outcomes that we’ve been seeing is really changing the dialogue to start with a dif- from a different place.
So we’re starting not from just the diseased body part or the medical condition, but the purpose, the person’s sense of meaning and purpose- Mm … what they want their health for. You know, really, those are deep questions. And, and so, but when you can have a sincere shift in dialogue and help people explore that, then all of the lifestyle changes and all of the other things are now intrinsically motivated because it’s aligned with what matters to them.
So these are not easy things to do. Yeah. And I think it’s exciting to see the term being used a lot. It’s exciting to see other, other entities and communities and health systems saying, “We’re do- we’re gonna do that.” And then the tricky part is- Are they really transforming or are they just tr- using the terms?
So I think the work for those of us that are- Yeah … in this field is to really kind of be, like, obsessed with the, the real transformation and the fidelity to that. Otherwise, things get co-opted, you know, where the terms are used, but the real transformation doesn’t happen. So I think that’s the phase that we’re in.
It’s, it’s a tricky phase, actually. This is what we’re gonna do. Okay. I’m gonna install, like, a bat phone in my house- … and you’re gonna call me- Okay … and say, “Hey, James. I see them saying whole health, but I know that they’re doing this, this, and this.” And then I’ll make a video- Okay … and we’ll say, “Hey, you know, do- whoever this is, like, we know this isn’t whole health.
You can’t use that word. You know- … whole health means this, this.” Let’s do it. I would do that. Like, I, I, I, I really, like… It, it’s interesting ’cause we’ve had this same conversation. I had it, you know, here with the words functional medicine. Yes, for sure. Right? Because that, because ultimately- Yeah … you know, functional medicine, um, means something to someone.
But a few years ago, or in the last decade, it became kind of a cool marketing gimmick. Yes. And so, you know, functional medicine is now on the other end. They, because it was an emergent- So interesting … concept, and because they gave space for it to emerge without saying, “This is exactly how it is,” I think that, that allowed, um, decades of progress to happen in a short period of time- Interesting
because of the emergent nature of how it was delivered. But now there’s an effort, and we- they’ve been talking about it here, which is essentially how do we create some standards for what functional medicine is- Yes … because there’s a lot of cowboy functional medicine. Yep. And I don’t think there’s so much cowboy whole health, but I think there is a veneer of whole health that gets- Yes
painted on stuff- Yeah … that isn’t really whole health. Very well said I’ll get the bat phone. All right. I’m up for that. Tracy’s calling again. Wouldn’t it be fun? What are they doing? We should do it. No, no, we’re definitely doing it. All right, so, so, you know, what, what do you think, um, I guess what is the, what is the purpose of the veneer?
Uh, well, okay, that’s a great question. I, I think my observation is that people know that the current paradigm isn’t working. Yep. And so there’s no longer a debate about that, which is good. I mean, that’s progress, right? Yeah. We have to… And everybody points to, and I think it’s a good thing to point to as evidence that, you know, even just look at the dollars spent- Yeah
in healthcare, and then whatever the wellbeing market, whatever the label for that is. And you know this system isn’t meeting the needs because look at what’s happening. You know, people are going other, seeking outcomes and, and solutions in other places. So we know we have a problem, so that’s the good news.
The, but the challenge is the slapping the veneer on. You know, real system change, and you know this is my passion, is hard. Yeah. It’s really hard to truly change a system. So how do we, and that’s my passion, is like how do we create a system where these, this is not on the outside trying to like- Yeah … just attach itself to the dominant paradigm- Yeah
but the dominant paradigm actually changes- Yeah … so it’s aligned. That’s hard work. So I think the veneer comes when people are like, “Okay, if that’s the new word, we’ll use that word- Yeah … and then we, maybe we won’t even have to change.” Yeah. Because the real paradigm, it’s not evil, it’s just that systems are, are like, they do what they’re designed to do, and they’re gonna try to protect.
The dominant paradigm wants to stay the dominant paradigm. Mm. So, so it’s a way to kind of say, “Okay, fine, now you can leave us alone ’cause we’re doing it now,” when they’re not really. So the change is essential. Um, and we’re not gonna get… The truth is it, it won’t work obviously ’cause you’re not gonna get different outcomes by just slapping a different veneer on.
Yeah. Um, so that’s the, I mean, it’s important work, and I think, while I’m on a roll, I think what I’m observing right now, which is interesting to me, it’s a little disheartening, but I think there’s an opportunity. I, I’m seeing more infighting n- within what I will call the tribes of healthcare. So you know, there’s functional medicine, there’s- Integrative medicine, there’s lifestyle medicine, there’s, you know, there’s all of these different- Longevity
longevi- Mm-hmm … you know, it’s all these different tribes. Yeah. And that’s good, ’cause there’s many ways to kneel and kiss the ground, right? Yeah. Um, but and there’s many doorways in. But it’s not good if we’re all, like, fighting for, “Oh no, we’re the answer. No, we’re the…” You know, and I’m seeing that happen now, and I think in general it’s because the culture right now is coming from a place of fear and scarcity- Yeah
as oppois- opposed to joy and abundance. And when you come from fear and scarcity, you start to stake out your territory and- Yeah … I think what the opportunity is is how can we, and you’re a fac- you’re a huge leader in this, how can we truly, uh, synergize and align? Because really, all boats do rise. Yeah. I mean, some people will come through one door, some people will come through another door, but if we’re not, if we’re really building something collectively that is truly bigger than the parts, then we’re gonna transform, then we’ll get to the shared vision that we all have.
But th- that’s, I think that’s the place we are in right now, like are we gonna do that? Are we gonna take the higher road, or are we just gonna like spend our time like trying to stake- Yeah … out our territory? Well, the economic priority for the last 20 years is to have your own name, because then you can have your own conference and your own tribe, and you can build an organization.
But ultimately, this has been, you know, my dream for, since the beginning of The Functional Forum. I actually thought naively that when I called the show The Functional Forum, that, um, I could convince people that, you know, a common language was needed for the implementation, and that when I saw functional medicine, I was like, “This seems like a pretty good common language.”
‘Cause I had spent time with acupuncturists and chiropractors and, and um, you know, Ayurvedic practitioners and naturopathic doctors, and realized, like, they had something in common, right? Yes. They had all recognized the universal truth. Yeah. But because they didn’t have a common language- Yeah … it was actually very difficult for them to work in teams, right?
Yes. To talk about what was going on with the patients, and I saw that, you know, the, the, the functional medicine system could be that. Now unwittingly, I realized that I had chosen a team by calling it- Yeah … The Functional Forum. Isn’t that so interesting? Yeah. And I didn’t really know that. I was a little naive to it, because I had just sort of done it and I was like, “Oh, this seems like a good idea, and I’m sure I could convince everyone if I have this show.”
And I don’t know to whatever degree that happened, but this, this harmony, harmony and unification is the great challenge, I think, of the next- Yes … era, and- Yes … I would love to be in service of it. Yeah. Just tell me what to do. Okay. I have some ideas. Okay, tell me. After the show, I’ll text you. Or just tell me, you know, tell me after the show- I’ll tell you after the show
and you can only find out if you keep on listening. But I do th- I do think there are the, uh, the op- the opportunity is I think there are people who are bringing together like-minded tr- leaders from the tribes to say, “All right. Let’s, let’s be a part of this solution,” and we need to get you into those conversations.
Yeah. That’d be great. Well, I, I’d love to give you an example of, of, and, and to get your, your take on this because here’s an example of something that I do- I feel is not whole health, that kind of is masquerading as whole health, and then some efforts to create whole health. So you know, one of the reasons why I saw functional medicine and thought, “Okay, well, look, this is part of the common language,” is one of the biggest things is the patient-practitioner relationship.
Right. And I recognized right from the beginning, this is part of my thesis from the beginning, is there’s something that powerful that really happens, um, when you come into, you know, creative tension with another person, a healer of some sort, that can allow you to go somewhere where you can’t go by yourself.
There’s a reflection. Yes. There’s the question asking. There’s the wisdom, all of that. So there’s the patient-practitioner relationship, central, central, central. So- If you take that out of a functional medicine experience and you have the labs and you have the supplements, but you don’t have that human connection, my judgment is that that is not whole health, right?
That there’s not an opportunity for whole health there. However, what we have seen is that there is a hunger to learn more about oneself. Yes. And we have such a limited way in which we learn each other. I met a guy here from Japan, and he was telling me about the panel that everyone gets in Japan every year as part of the National Health Service.
Oh, interesting. And the doctor I was sitting with was, was commenting how broad it is. So there’s been a lack of understanding of ourselves that turns into a massive consumer labs industry from nowhere, essentially, right? Because you are meeting a need of something. But without, um, the sort of social fabric behind it, you have something that looks like whole health but is not whole health.
And, and I had this conversation, um, you know, we’ve been having this conversation over the last few years now. Fullscript who, you know, we, uh, have supported me, um, over the years, you know, their commitment, um, is, you know… I- in some ways they started out as, like, supplement delivery, right? Mm-hmm. And now have labs included in it.
But the thing that I think that they like to stand on is the fact that they are facilitating, um, they are facilitating a relationship with a health professional. Mm-hmm. And to, and, and their, their point of view is that that is the foundation of medicine, and I agree, and that is a foundation of a whole health relationship.
And yet they have found a way through Fullscript Journeys to kind of give people what they want, which is more information about themselves, but connect it to a potential for a relationship with someone who could take them on. They got 125,000 practitioners that have an account. And I was trying to do the math to thinking like, “Okay, what would it take for each one of those people to stand up in their community to offer the people what they want, but also give them an opportunity then to come into, um, a relationship with a healer?”
And I felt like, you know- I think as a V1 experiment of giving people what they want, but then, you know, back-ending it to what they need- Yeah … um, you know, that that is, that is a worthy experiment to see. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I’d just love to get your, your, your take on that because I, I know it’s not, it, it’s not the, the, uh, there’s something about the patient-practitioner relationship that I think will be fundamental in, that is fundamental in whole health.
I know it’s not the whole picture, but I think that it, it does, it does, um, add a lot of value. So I just wanna take a minute to talk about the incredible mission partners that we have here at The Evolution of Medicine that have made this possible. So first and foremost, I wanna thank- Fullscript and Fullscript Journey.So Fullscript’s been an amazing partner for 10 years. We only pick partners that can help us achieve our vision and help you achieve your practice vision.
And Fullscript have been an incredible partner for a decade, but their new offering Journeys, this is why we called it The Evolution of Medicine Journeys, is allowing practitioners to combine the relationships that they have with the newest technology to sell direct-to-consumer lab testing, and use it as a funnel to bring into your practice, and it’s a game changer for the whole industry.
So go to goevomed.com/journeys, and you can get started on building the Journeys for your practice, an optimal way into your practice. We’re gonna have some conversations about it. This is a game changer. Next, Genova. Genova, um, have been fans of The Evolution of Medicine for a long time. We’re big fans of them, and they now have a lot more specialty testing.
They have a lot more tools, and it’s a key part of, uh, understanding the body ecologically. So go to goevomed.com/genova to find out more. Come on over here and I wanna show you about the other mission partners. You know, if you’ve been following us for a while, you know that these are organizations that we trust, that add a lot of value.
Freedom Practice Coaching. Um, I have been sup- supported by them since the beginning and, you know, so many of the issues that practitioners face in building a successful practice, scaling a successful practice, come down to having the right support with people who have been there and done that. Go to goevomed.com/fpc.
Um, BigBoost Marketing. Uh, Uli and his team are the best in the business when it comes to really understanding how to market your functional medicine practice. Go to goevomed.com/bigboost and see how they can help you. And then what you’re gonna be hearing a, a lot about is the formation of clinical networks.
And ultimately, TruNeura is our first effort at that, which is to build an integrated clinical network, combining independent practices from across the country into a network that can reverse cognitive decline. And if you go to goevomed.com/truneura, you can get a demo. You can see what it means to be part of an integrated clinical network.
And ultimately, TruNeura is our first effort at that, which is to build an integrated clinical network, combining independent practices from across the country into a network that can reverse cognitive decline. And if you go to goevomed.com/truneura, you can get a demo. You can see what it means to be part of an integrated clinical network.
That’s mentorship, that’s software, and that’s making it easier for you to get incredible outcomes in a disease state where there are no other options. So thanks to our mission partners. Let’s get back to the content.
That’s, that’s very cool. And what I, if I had my magic wand- Yeah … you know, what I would, what I, to, to your description of, you know, meet people where they are and what they want, and then help w- be with them on a journey- Yeah … that takes them somewhere perhaps they didn’t know they wanted. Yeah. Um, and again, I come back to, from my perspective and also from the research and all the work that we did in the VA, the game changer in the outcomes that we’ve seen, which are really impressive clinical improvements and all this other stuff, really started with that change in the conversation.
And when you’re talking about people not n- not only knowing themselves, um, biochemically or, you know, but knowing themselves spiritually- Mm … like turning inward to explore what really brings them a sense of meaning in their life. What, you know, the kinds of existential questions that often people don’t reflect upon ’cause we’re just trying to get through the day- Yeah
unless or until they have a medical crisis. You know, how many cancer patients have told me that their cancer diagnosis was a blessing because they actually stopped and turned inward and figured out what mattered in their life- Yeah … and then reor- reorganized their life to be in alignment with that. So how do we do that without, um, waiting for the cancer diagnosis?
So if we took all those physicians or clinicians, and in addition to, “Oh, here’s, you know, here’s your, like, panel, and da, da, da,” w- that we’re, we just did, you know, we have this whole health reflection tool that’s free and openly available, and it helps people start to begin to think about, um, what, what matters to them in their life, their different areas of self-care, where they wanna start.
So it’s a great tool for helping people be in a different relationships with themselves, and then if the provider uses it, in a different relationship with the provider. So when you’re addressing things like behavior change and how you eat and how you move and how you relate to other people and how you relate to yourself, you have such a different pathway in because you understand where that person is starting from, and they understand where they’re starting from.
Yeah. So I would love to hook- It’s like human version … like that approach. Right. Right, that humanistic approach- Right. Yeah … to the functional approach. Yeah. Um, and we’ve heard that a lot in this conference. Yeah. But let’s, like, to operationalize that would be very cool. Yeah. I think that, that does need to be operationalized, and, and part of what I, um, experienced with going through the process of understanding the group visits is that, like, there’s, there’s something about information first that obviously is very palatable ’cause people don’t have information, but that human first- Yeah
is the thing that can really, you know, connect- Yeah … people into a healing process. Yep. I think that’s, that’s critical. That’s how I summarize whole health now, that it’s… I mean, I can get concrete and say, “Here’s the checklist,” but essentially, from my perspective, it’s the transformation of a medicalized system to a humanized system.
Mm. That’s what it’s about. Yeah. That’s pretty, pretty clear. Um, what are some of the, the green shoots that you see that are human-first projects that you’ve had a chance to, like, witness being done? What’s a green shoot? Well, just, you know, like you water something and the shoot- Oh, like grassroot … starts to come out, and eventually this will be a tree, you know?
But, like, the grassroot, the, the, the green shoot of the thing. Okay. Is that an English term? I thought that was a- No, never heard that term before … American. Okay. Okay. Well- You know, you learn something every day. But it sounds cool Yeah. The, you know- Like a grass- … you water something, you water the seeds and the green shoot comes up Okay, so we would call it a grassroots.
Okay, grassroots. Okay, I got it. That’s the translation. That’s the translation. Um, well, we’re seeing a lot of great… You know, the VA has done a lot of work, but now what’s cool is, like, taking what we’re learning and seeing. Like, uh, there’s actually a, um, uh, a hope that in this country, you know, we have land-grant universities who, like, are, um, have a, a big social commitment to give back to the community, and there’s a number of land-grant universities with high-level leadership who are saying, “Let us help be an agent of change in the communities for whole health.”
Virginia Tech i- we’ve been working with Virginia Tech, and they’re, they’re taking a leadership role in this, and now the, um, senior vice president of Virginia Tech is, is interested in working with us to bring other g- land-grant universities together to start to say, “How can we support communities in adopting this?”
And what I like about that is it takes it out of just the medical and the health systems- Yeah … to a different level. So we’re, we’re seeing that and making that happen. As y- as you know, we’re working with Southern California University Health Sciences in training, um, an amazing, amazing groups of people in getting a doctorate in whole health leadership so that they are positioned and ready to help drive change in the systems in which they work to really do that system transformation that we were talking about.
Yeah. So that’s a whole… And, and SCU is now standing up, um, an institute for the advancement of whole health. So, so there are w- all sorts of, when you pull back and you look at what’s happening, um, there’s, there’s really encouraging to see these, what was it called? Chutes? Green chutes. Green chutes. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. That’s my new word. Uh, yeah. Green chutes. Um, and, and, and then again, I’m all about synergy, so when we can kind of connect- those efforts now, and they can learn from each other, not just say, “Oh, that’s nice. I’m glad- Yeah … you’re doing your work,” but what are you learning? What’s hard? What’s not working?
What are the barriers? They start to share in a real operational level- Yeah … then solutions become available that we couldn’t have imagined otherwise. Well, I think functional medicine and integrated medicine, lifestyle medicine, is sort of like this sort of m- mycelial layer that’s underneath- Yes … but it’s not really connected- Correct
because of the sort of staking out of the ground. Right, that’s the stage we’re in. Yeah. I think that’s the stage we’re in. Yeah. And I think you and I can help. Yeah, I, I think that that is, that is the most important work because the other thing is- Agree … you know, even though other countries have, um, let’s say, uh, uh, the, the social fabric has not unraveled to such a degree, so they have better health outcomes because it’s just a, a healthier society.
Correct. Um, because America has had this unraveling, um, it, it’s forced innovation to show, and that’s why- Yes … you see that functional medicine is way further ahead here than any other country. Right. But that’s because they had the problem for longer. That’s because we’re so broken. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it’s right.
But, but it… But also you had to sort of break it to sort of rebuild it because ultimately the whole, the rest of the world does follow the pharmaceutical first paradigm generally for medicine. Yeah. It has become the general way of delivering medicine, you know, across hospitals and health systems across the world.
So there has to be a sort of a somewhat of a reevaluation, and I think we’re just a little bit further ahead. So the things that happen here, you know, permeate outwards. You can see that from this conference. Yeah. Think how many people I’ve met from so many different- Right … you know, countries across the world who are coming here to understand how does the body work, how is the ecology of the body, you know, adjusted, uh, um, you know, a- and, and how can we, uh, adjust the medical s- you know, the way that we practice to actually facilitate whole health.
Yeah. Hear, hear. Yeah. Breakthroughs to break- breakdowns come from… breakthroughs come from breakdowns. They do. You gotta break down to breakthrough. Well, um, you know, for, for the people who are watching, I’d love for you to share a little bit more about the program because- Oh, sure … I’m very excited about it, and I, it, it’s in my, it’s in my future.
All I can say- I know it is. I’m so excited … it’s in my future. When I had to, I had to… I was going through the application phase, and I had to sort of like for the… I haven’t written a, a resume for a long time- Oh … ’cause I work for myself. Yeah. So I had to like go back and think about, okay, what are all the things that I’ve done and how they fit into whole health, and I was like, okay, well, put this, put this, put this.
And I was like, yeah, this is, this is, this is who I’m here to be. Yeah. Thanks for asking. It’s, it’s really exciting to me because when SCU, um, had the idea of doing a doctorate, firstly, the initial idea was actually they wanted to do a doctorate, or they were exploring doing a doctorate in integrative medicine, and I didn’t know them at that point in time.
This was two or three years ago. Um, and I– but some- somebody asked me to brainstorm with them, and I’m like, “I don’t get that.” Like, again, we don’t need another- Another thing … another silo. No. Yeah. And, and there’s lots of great integrative medicine fellowship. I mean, we don’t– I didn’t get it. Yeah. And, and, but I did say, “You know what I think is needed is the nation is calling for this transformation, right?”
Mm-hmm. Um, the National Academies report had just come out, and, and everyone’s saying, “Yes, whole health. We need a true system transformation.” And I’m looking at that going, “Who’s gonna lead it?” It’s system– Like we were talking about, s- real system transformation is very hard. It’s a different kind of leadership than leading an established organization.
And, and then there’s the issue of a lot of people don’t even know what whole health, a whole health system really entails. Like, how do you create a system that is actually designed to empower people and equip people? Our current system isn’t designed for those core competencies. So I was just saying, you know, I think h- getting a doctoral program going to, to really support people in leading large system transformation to whole health, that would be interesting.
And so SCU Health Sciences Center said, “That sounds cool. Will you help us design that?” So, um, I dove into that and have had a ball working with Larry Phillips and a bunch of our other faculty to co-create that curriculum, um, which is across two years and four months, and it’s meant as a, it’s a professional doctorate- Yeah
so people can be in their lives and working full-time. We come together. I was very keen on, we have to have some time together. You can’t be an agent of change if you yourself haven’t had a transformational experience. Mm. So we ha– it’s that human connection. Yeah. It’s actually a parallel to what we’re talking about in, in healthcare.
Yeah. Like, it can’t just be transactional online. It has to be, um, human. Embodied. Embodied. Yeah. And so we come together across the two years four times, two times each year. And that in-depth experience of being together is essential to this. But when I designed it, or we, we all designed it, James, I was like, “You know, we might design it, but will they come?”
Yeah. You know, we’ll build it, but will anyone come? Because it’s the first degree of its kind in the country. It doesn’t exist. Um, and I wanna just tell you what is so cool and, and when you, when you join the, the degree, the people that have been attracted to this are amazing. And part of what’s amazing about them is they are from a wide variety of professions and doorways in.
You don’t have to be a clinician. It can be an administrator or educator. It’s like if you wanna be a change agent in this realm of whole health, then that’s what, that’s what’s it’s attracting. And when you look at– we now have just started our fourth class, our fourth cohort, and when you look at the, the projects and those, the transformational work these guys are doing, and you start to go back into networking, you start to connect, like All of the change that’s happening in different domains, in different, uh, sectors, in different parts of the country, and you start to network that, it’s very exciting.
It’s so cool. I’m so excited about it. Yeah, there’s the mycelia layer- Yeah … you know, forming underneath, and also- It’s really in- … you know, coming above- It’s really interesting … ground at the same time. Yeah. Well, look, I wanna, you know, share, uh, my, uh, excitement about it. You know, I’m, I’m super excited to be part of it.
I do feel like this is, you know, what I’m here to do, and so I wanna thank you for creating it, for facilitating it- Oh, for sure … for learning. And I hope that… You know, I know that a lot of people who listen to the Evolution of Medicine podcast, um, they listen. When there’s, you know, when I started this, there were almost zero, you know, zero content about this topic- Mm-hmm
or the, the range of topics we’re talking about. But the people who listen to this, who watch this, you know, I know that there’s an inkling inside many of them that they wanna be this agen- agent of change, and some of them find themselves in private practice because they’ve had to do that in order to- Yeah, for sure
practice with integrity, and some of them, you know, are in health systems. And when I spent time really trying to popularize the group visit, I saw the number of people that were in systems. And even here at IFM, um, you know, there’s a record number. I think 40% of the attendees work inside health systems- That’s interesting
right here at this conference, which is a record. It’s typically been very biased towards small practices, but this is, you know, this is, uh, this is happening here. Yeah. So, um, if you are listening to this, um, how do people find out? How do they get in touch? How do they listen? Oh, yeah. Uh, well, I think you can just Google.
Well, it’s on SCU Health Sciences, um, or just Google- Whole Health Leadership … Whole Health Leadership Doctorate. It’s the only one in the country. Amazing. Easy to find. Well, Tracy, thank you so much for, you know, for leading it, and, and I look forward to, you know, much, m- many more opportunities to, to take this forward together.
Absolutely. And, um, you know, I’ve, I felt just through doing these interviews in the last couple days, inspired, you know, re-inspired to, um, to reconnect the diversity of, of, uh, of opinion that’s out there, the different ways of building function and assessing function, and, and, uh, I think that- The building of a common language and a common infrastructure is, you know, exactly what’s needed.
It’s part of a great reconnection, um, that I think is necessary, uh, for society, for medicine. Yes. And, um, really grateful to be on this journey with you. Me too, James. Okay. All right. So if you don’t know about the history of Dr. Tracey Gaudet, go and watch last year’s episode. We’ll put it in the show notes.
There’s a whole history I didn’t mention at the beginning. We just, you know, friendly like that, we got into it. Yeah. But there’s the transformation of the VA. There’s the creation, actually, of, um, the program, the University of Arizona program with, uh, Andy Weil Fellowship, which a number of the people- Yeah
uh, that I’ve interviewed here are, you know, are, are seeing each other as, uh, graduates of that- Yes, yes … 15 years later. It’s so much fun. And it’s amazing seeing how those people have gone out into the world and, um, are leading, you know, leading in their own, in their own way. So- Very cool … um, this has been the Evolution of Medicine podcast.
Thank you so much for tuning in. Hope this was inspiring. Please share this with a whole health leader that you know, or an aspiring whole health leader, um, so that we can accelerate this evolution of medicine. Thanks so much for tuning in. We’ll see you next time. So we are here asking practitioners about their practitioner journeys, and the reason why is because Journeys is a new product from Fullscript.
Journeys allows you to set up your own lab offerings as the top of the funnel. Give the patients what they want. They wanna know about themselves, and it’s the easiest way to bring them into your practice. We have all types of practices from across the country that are building their own unique lab panels for their own unique practices, selling them to their community, and acting as a great funnel into their practice.
This is a massive innovation. I think this will accelerate the evolution of medicine. You can go to goevomed.com/journeys to find out more. Set up your own journeys in half an hour, and transform the health of your community. Go get ’em. So that was the podcast. What an epic session. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Evolution of Medicine podcast.
We will be back again next week, and thanks so much for tuning in, and we’ll see you next time.
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