Robert Lustig, MD joins James for this information-packed episode that unifies mental and metabolic healthcare. Dr. Lustig is a pediatric endocrinologist and food educator, who focuses on spreading awareness about the topic of this podcast.

During this episode he walks through the connection between nutrition, brain health, and mental health. They touch on topics such as the impact of ultra-processed food on metabolic health, the role of the amygdala in fear conditioning and chronic toxic stress, and the importance of the vagus nerve in regulating the nervous system.

Dr. Lustig also highlights the need for public education and policy change to address the systemic health crisis and mental health crisis. Dr. Lustig will be speaking at the Integrative Medicine for Mental Health Conference in October 2024.

Check out this informative, empowering episode to hear about:

  • Dr. Lusting’s new book on the amygdala and its connection to food.
  • The importance of understanding the difference between food science, nutrition and metabolic health.
  • The role of mitochondrial dysfunction in systemic and mental health disorders.
  • The potential for a cultural shift toward prioritizing metabolic health and the challenges facing it.
  • And much more!


The Unity of Metabolic and Mental Health | Episode 338


James Maskell:
Hello and welcome to the podcast. This week we have Dr. Robert Lustig. He is a pediatric endocrinologist. He is an author, he’s a professor, and he is at the forefront of helping understand the role of food and mental health. We got into some really interesting territory, especially in the second half of this interview around the amygdala and the vagus nerve and what actually controls behavior, and so I think you’re going to really like it. He will be speaking at the Integrative Medicine for Mental Health Conference that is coming up in October. We’ll be there too. It is hosted by Kiki Newman, and really look forward to seeing you there too. This was a really fascinating 40 minutes. Enjoy.

All right let’s do it. Here we go.

So a warm welcome to the podcast, Dr. Robert Lustig, MD. Welcome, Doc.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Pleasure to be here, James. Great to renew the relationship.

James Maskell:
Absolutely. Yeah. So when we last were hanging out, it was in London last year at the conference, and you gave an amazing talk there at the London Functional Forum really connecting the dots on metabolic health and mental health. And I know that that remains at the forefront, not only of your work, but also the crisis that’s in front of us. So what does your day-to-day look like? Sort of fighting that fire?

Robert Lustig, MD:
Oh, it’s swatting a lot of flies is what it is. It’s problematic to be sure. And the reason is because we have the data. The data are very clear now. What is not is the education of the public. And so that has really sort of taken all of my time. And it’s not just the education of the public that’s the issue, it’s the education of the politicians. And that has been extraordinarily difficult. And I know why, because there are dark forces pushing from the other side. So it’s not a direct path. So we can unpack that and I can explain a little bit more about what all this means.

James Maskell:
Yeah. Well, let’s jump into that.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Mental health and metabolic health are the watchwords. Ultimately, the World Economic Forum determined that the true purpose of nutrition is metabolic health. It’s not the environment, it’s not profit, it’s metabolic health. If there’s no metabolic health, there is no nutrition.

Now, nutrition is only valuable as it informs metabolic health. So, understanding the difference between those two is extremely important. So there are three terms that get thrown about in this business, food science, nutrition, and metabolic health. Now they are not the same, and you have to really understand what these three mean in order to be able to put the whole story together. Food science is what happens to food between the ground and the mouth. Nutrition is what happens to food between the mouth and the cell. Metabolic health is what happens inside the cell. But metabolic health is what’s going on in terms of all of these diseases that we’re dying from. So type two diabetes, hypertension, dyslipidemia, cardiovascular disease, cancer, dementia, mental health disorders, fatty liver disease, polycystic ovarian disease. These are all due to changes in metabolic health, what’s going on inside the cell. Now, nutrition is valuable as it informs metabolic health, but it is one step divorced from it. Food science is valuable as it informs metabolic health, but it is two steps divorced from it.

James Maskell:
Yeah.

Robert Lustig, MD:
So you actually have to understand the science in order to be able to understand what’s going on. So I’ll sum up the science in two words. Mitochondrial dysfunction. So what are mitochondria? Mitochondria, the little energy burning factories inside each of your cells that turn chemical energy into a new kind of chemical energy. So the chemical energy is called food. And the new kind of chemical energy is called ATP. Adenosine triphosphate. That is the energy that your cell uses to power all of the workings that basically keep you alive. And ATP is extraordinarily important. Your body makes and burns 88 pounds of ATP per day.

James Maskell:
Wow.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Think about it. Okay, half your weight is ATP being formed and then degraded. Okay? As it liberates the energy that basically allows you to conduct every aspect of your life. So this is a big deal. And the thing that does it are these little organelles inside each of your cells called mitochondria.

Now, when your mitochondria are working all is well. You basically assimilate the food into proteins in your body, into lipids for your membranes and into ATP for energy. But when your mitochondria are not working, not so much, and that’s when disease occurs. So we now know that the systemic diseases that we are talking about and the mental health diseases, the behavioral health diseases, the addiction, the depression, the PTSD are actually due to mitochondrial dysfunction. So that is a big concept and that’s how the two ultimately tie together. So you actually have to understand that our systemic health disorders and our mental health disorders are actually downstream of a primary cell biology problem called mitochondrial dysfunction.

And so then the question is, well, how’d that occur? Where’d that come from? Why is that not amenable to our current methods of trying to ameliorate it? And the bottom line is, until you fix the food, you can’t fix the mitochondria.

James Maskell:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate you sharing that. This year, our theme at The Evolution of Medicine is unity. And I think one of the things that happened during Covid is a splintering into different factions, but it seems to me that that message that you shared is universal and that every doctor who listens to this podcast, and every doctor that’s out there in the journey of looking to create health, could agree on that, right? That food is causing this dysregulation, causing the dysfunction, the mitochondria and the downstream effects or all of these chronic illnesses of which one subset is mental health. How close do you think we are on that being a theme of unity for practitioners?

Robert Lustig, MD:
Well, okay, so you said something just now that I actually disagree with.

James Maskell:
Okay.

Robert Lustig, MD:
“The food is the ultimate determinant.” It is the ultimate determinant if you actually know what food is. So what’s the definition of food? And this is not rhetorical. The definition of food straight from the dictionary is substrate that contributes either to the growth or burning of an organism, growth or burning. So anything that passes your lips that contributes to either growth or burning, you can categorize as food. Well, we have this thing that we call ultra-processed food. Ultra-processed food is not food. And the reason is because ultra-processed food does not contribute to growth or burning, and I can prove it. We have the data to demonstrate that, in terms of burning.

Fructose, which is in 73% of the items in the American grocery store because they’re ultra-processed, actually inhibits burning. It inhibits mitochondrial function. It inhibits three separate enzymes that are necessary for mitochondria to do their job. It inhibits AMP kinase, the fuel gauge on the liver cell. It inhibits dehydrogenase long chain, which is necessary to generate the two carbon fragments that then go into the mitochondria for burning. And it inhibits CPT I, carnitine palmitoyltransferase I, the enzyme that regenerates carnitine, which is the shuttle mechanism by which the fatty acids get into the mitochondria in order to be able to be burned.

In other words, fructose and by proxy, every other ultra-processed food because every ultra-processed food has sugar added to it for palatability, otherwise you wouldn’t eat it, actually inhibits burning and we have the data to support that.

What about growth? Well, my colleague, Dr. Efrat Monsonego Ornan, who runs the Department of Nutrition at Hebrew University Jerusalem, looked at this question. And it turns out that ultra-processed food actually inhibits growth. It inhibits cortical bone growth, trabecular bone growth, linear bone growth. Bottom line, we have the data in humans too. That those raised on ultra-processed food end up having their growth inhibited because ultra-processed food actually inhibits that phenomenon.

So if you are inhibiting growth and you’re inhibiting burning, are you a food? In fact, you are a poison. So just because the food industry calls it ultra-processed food, that actually doesn’t make it food. And so when you said food is seminal, it is integral. Yes, it is. If it’s real food, the food that our ancestors ate, the food that your grandmother prepared, yes. But the stuff you buy in the grocery store today is actually toxic. And so getting people to understand that when they have basically reordered their lives, reordered the care of their children around this thing called ultra-processed food, which actually is poison, is what we have to sort of rethink and get people to understand how we can mitigate this problem. And it’s not small. It’s big.

James Maskell:
Big, yeah. In the last few years, as this has become, I guess a little bit more known in society, yourself, many others talking at it, talking at this topic, what are some of the green shoots that you see that make you think that a revolution in this topic is on its way?

Robert Lustig, MD:
So the question is, you can’t do anything until you educate the public. If the public is not ready for a change, change will not occur. Okay? Think of it this way. This is how I explain it to people. In the last 30 years, there have been four, count them, four cultural tectonic shifts in our society, both US and UK, both. Here they are, ready?

Number one, bicycle helmets and seat belts. Number two, smoking in public places. Number three, drunk driving. Number four, condoms in bathrooms. Thirty years ago, if a legislator stood up in a state house or in Congress or Parliament or the Duma or anywhere else around the world and proposed legislation for any one of those four things, they’d have gotten thrown right out. They’d have been ridden out on a rail. Nanny state, remember nanny state?

James Maskell:
Yeah.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Where did nanny state start? It started with Lord Balfour. It started in the UK. He was the first person to call it the nanny state back in 1972. Okay, so the UK knows about this. Liberty interest, get out of my kitchen, get out of my bathroom, get out of my car. Today, they’re all facts of life. Nobody is bellyaching about any of those four things. They’re done deals, they’re settled. Now, we got new things to belly ache about. No argument there. We got vaccines, as an example. Okay, look what happened with vaccines. We thought we had settled that and now it’s unsettled. And we can talk about that if you would like. But the bottom line is we witnessed a cultural tectonic shift around those four things.

Now, how’d that occur? Well, we taught the children. The children grew up and they voted, and the naysayers are dead. That’s why it’s a cultural tectonic shift. That’s why it’s a generational shift, and that’s why it took 30 years for just that reason.

So in fact, you cannot teach anybody something new unless they didn’t have an opinion to start with. That’s what I have learned. I have learned that belief systems die hard. And so if you are of a belief system that ultra-processed food is food, nothing I am going to say is going to change your mind or change your habits or change your life. On the other hand, the goal is to change the next generation.

James Maskell:
Absolutely.

Robert Lustig, MD:
That’s the goal. So the question is, how are we doing with that? So this question of real versus processed food, we’re about seven years into this, eight years into this, something like that. And you can see the benefits of it, the green shoots as you put it, coming in different ways and new startups that are trying to fix the food supply in different fashions.

Here’s what I know. There is a public relations arm of the food industry called IFIC, I-F-I-C, the International Food Information Council. They are the PR arm of the food industry. They are the bad guys. But every year they publish a report, their annual report, and every year they ask the public a question. And in 2011, they asked the following question, what foodstuff contributes most to obesity? And back in 2011, 11% of the population said refined carbohydrate and sugar. And 42% of the population said a calorie is a calorie. And the rest said, I don’t know. Okay?

James Maskell:
Yeah.

Robert Lustig, MD:
In 2018, seven years later, they asked the exact same question with the exact same phrasing, and they got a different answer. 33% of the population said refined carbohydrate and sugar. And an equal number of people subtracted from a calorie is a calorie, or I don’t know. So what that taught me is that the knowledge, the information is getting out there, people are understanding it. So now what we have to do is we have to reach critical mass to actually be able to then influence policy change. Malcolm Gladwell’s the tipping point.

James Maskell:
Yeah.

Robert Lustig, MD:
And we’re getting there, we’re getting there. We’re not there yet. We’re not there yet, but we are approaching it and we see signs of it. These green shoots are definitely showing us that this is going to pop out of the ground.

James Maskell:
Well, actually the first time we met was at a CrossFit health event. I don’t know if you remember that, but it was December 2019. And it’s interesting, yesterday I was at an event again with Greg Glassman for his new Broken Science initiative that I thought was very interesting. He had a great quote. He said, “We don’t have a healthcare system. We have a disease economy, and an outbreak of wellness could collapse the whole thing.”

I thought that was interesting because ultimately there is a huge industry that is dependent on metabolic disease.

Robert Lustig, MD:
I mean, think of it like what happened with COVID. You saw what happens when supply chains crash. Well, we have a medicine supply chain. The pharma industry has a medicine supply chain. The hospital industry has a medicine supply chain. What would happen if all of a sudden people didn’t need medicine? People didn’t need hospitals? What would happen? Yeah, it’s a problem. It’s a problem that we would actually welcome because we are spending currently $2.1 trillion a year on the diseases of metabolic syndrome. We could recoup that. We would save $3.0 trillion a year.

Let’s take GLP-1 analogs alone. It’s the back of envelope calculation. If everyone in America who was obese who qualified for GLP-1 analog actually got it, that would be 2.1 trillion to the healthcare system, which is currently 4.1 trillion. So that would be a greater than 50% surcharge on top of what we are at right now.

Conversely, if we just reduced added sugar consumption in this country, down to USDA guidelines of 12 teaspoons of added sugar per day, which is ridiculously high. It really should be six, but let’s just do 12 because that’s USDA guidelines. We would knock weight down even more than GLP-1 analogs. We would double the weight loss and we would save $3.0 trillion a year. That’s a $5.1 trillion swing.

And we would make everyone healthier, except the hospital industry and the pharma industry would be in disarray.

So, which is better? I don’t know. I mean actually I do know. I do know. Yeah, it’s a problem. But that’s a problem I’d like to have.

James Maskell:
You know one of the things that happens in life is that people get a chronic illness, and at that moment there’s sort of like a departure point for them where they can keep on believing what’s happened before or they can step into a new story. And a lot of the doctors and practitioners in my community are sort of there at that moment, hopefully to realign them towards health creation. Obviously, one of the biggest issues is that the person that does that in the conventional system, the dietitian is recommending processed foods.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Well, indeed. And why are they recommending it? Because 90% of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics budget is basically underwritten by big food.

James Maskell:
Absolutely.

Robert Lustig, MD:
So the AND is not going to badmouth it, and they’re not going to teach their dietitians that ultra processed food’s a problem. So this is a self-perpetuating issue.

To that point, we have a healthcare system that is a sick care system, as you rightly said. And the reason we have it is because of this thing that developed in the United States called fee for service. Now I understand where fee for service came from. It came from the American Medical Association, which is really the American Surgical Association. There is no surgeons association. The American Medical Association is the American Surgical Association.

And back in 1961, when the federal government started negotiating for Medicare, the only association that was big enough to encompass physicians was the American Medical Association, which is the American Surgical Association. And so they said, “Look, we do procedures. We have to be compensated for our procedures.” And so we ended up with this model called fee for service, where the more you do, the more you get paid. Ultimately, it was about the work, not the health. What if we turned that on its head and said, “Doctors, you only make money if your patient gets healthy, and if your patient gets worse, we withhold your payment.”

What if that happened? Okay, so it’s not fee for service, it’s fee for health. And it doesn’t matter how much time you put into it depends on what your outcomes are, not your procedures, not your time, not your effort, but rather how well the patient responds. What would happen then? All of a sudden the doctors would run around trying to figure out, gee, how do I actually make my patient healthy? Oh, the only way to make patients healthy is actually to prevent disease, not to treat it. Oh my God, how do you prevent disease? Oh my God, I better go back to medical school.

James Maskell:
Yeah, well, I could tell you from speaking to a lot of those hospital systems that they aren’t in no way prepared for that transition and are freaking out when they start to learn about fee for value because they realize that they’ve been doing the exact opposite.

Robert Lustig, MD:
That’s exactly right. So this is a problem, and it’s not like I have an answer for it. What I do know is that what we are currently doing is unsustainable. That’s what I know. Okay. Something has to change and the food industry and the farm industry don’t want it to change because this is their gravy train.

James Maskell:
Well, a little bit later this year, we’re going to be together in DC for the Integrative Medicine for Mental Health Conference, and I know you’ve been a big supporter of that conference over the years, and you’re going to be speaking. What can we expect from your talk this year and what are your thoughts generally about that movement?

Robert Lustig, MD:
Well, I’ll be giving two talks there. One will be on Food and Metabolic Health, but the other one will be on something I’m very excited about. The title of the talk is, “Amygdala Unchained: Ground Zero for the Syndemic and the Meta Crisis”. Now, that’s a big title, but let me—

James Maskell:
Sounds like something Daniel Schmachtenberger would come up with.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Well, in fact, we’re going to be on a panel together.

James Maskell:
Okay, great.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Along with Jen Easterly, who is one of the heads of NSC, the National Security Council. So yeah, I’m very excited about that. So I can’t wait to meet Daniel Schmachtenberger. He’s a hero of mine.

James Maskell:
For sure.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Big thinker. Big thinker.

James Maskell:
Yeah. So do you think that this intersection of integrated medicine and mental health is sort of like the epicenter for the regeneration of medicine?

Robert Lustig, MD:
Indeed, indeed. So what I’m going to say in this talk is that we have this systemic health crisis. I don’t have to belabor that. We have this mental health crisis. I don’t have to belabor that. We have this societal health crisis. No argument. We also have this thing that economists and policymakers call the meta crisis, like for instance, cyber bullying, war, social disparities, basically social upheaval on a grand scale.

And the question is, are these two things, the syndemic and the meta crisis, are they related? Are they just happening at the same time by accident or are they actually related? And what I’m going to argue is that they are not only related, they are related to a common mechanism, and that common mechanism is dysfunction of a specific area of our brain called the amygdala.

But in fact, it’s actually not the amygdala that’s dysfunctional. The amygdala is doing its job. The amygdala has been unchained. That’s the reason for the title, Amygdala Unchanged. The amygdala is the fear center of the brain. It’s the part of the brain that basically tells you to be afraid. It senses. It is on constant lookout for external stimuli and then basically integrates that information to determine whether that stimulus is a threat or not. It is the part of your brain that determines threat.

Now, imagine you’re a three-year-old and you put your hand down on a hot stove and you go, “Ow. Well, I’m never doing that again.” So that is called fear conditioning. That is the job of the amygdala. That is what your amygdala is supposed to do. It is supposed to take the response to an external stimulus and translate it into learning. That is known as fear conditioning, and that is why you have an amygdala is for just that reason. And then you can take that and abstract it forward for your entire life. That is how you grow up. That is your job in life is to basically take the information from your amygdala and translate it into behavior.

However, that is not what is happening anymore. What is happening now is that you are taking these external stimuli and you are turning them into chronic toxic stress like Edvard Munch’s, The Scream. Basically everything is overwhelming and you lose your ability to actually discern what’s going on. In other words, you’ve turned a human into a lizard.

And so the question is, what happened to the amygdala that allowed it to go from fear conditioning to chronic toxic stress? And it turns out there are four brakes on the amygdala. So imagine you have a car and the car has four wheels and each wheel has a brake. You have four brakes. So you’re driving, you step on the brake in the cab and the car stops. All good. Let’s say one brake fails, what’s going to happen?

James Maskell:
The other brake is going to work harder.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Well, the other brakes are going to work harder. Are you going to stop? Yeah, you’ll stop with a jolt, but you’ll stop. Let’s say two brakes fail. Are you going to stop?

James Maskell:
Not really.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Depends which two.

James Maskell:
Yeah, I guess so.

Robert Lustig, MD:
So if the two are in the back, you’ll glide to a stop. If the two are in the front, you might actually capsize. If the two are on either side of the car, you’ll do a 360, but will you stop eventually? Now let’s say three brakes fail. What’s going to happen? You’re going to fishtail, you’re going to land on your head, but will you stop? Yeah, you’ll stop with a lot of damage.

James Maskell:
Yeah.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Okay. Now what if all four brakes fail at the same time?

James Maskell:
Unstoppable.

Robert Lustig, MD:
You are over the precipice and into the abyss, like the last scene from Thelma and Louise.

Because nothing else matters. There is no answer and you are done. You have basically turned into a lizard. Well, it turns out your amygdala has four brakes. The first is the prefrontal cortex, reasoning. The second is the hippocampus, memory. The third is oxytocin, safety. And the fourth is the afferent vagus nerve, introspection, basically gathering the data from the internal milieu and transmitting it to the brain. We have the data to support the notion that all of those brakes are failing now at the same time because of changes in our external environment that have basically poisoned each of those four brakes.

So the amygdala is actually doing its job. It’s the brakes that are not. And that change is actually fomenting all of our systemic health, all of our mental health, all of our societal health and all of our planetary health problems today.

James Maskell:
I really look forward to that and I think it’ll be great to joust with Daniel on that, and I’m sure he agrees on most of that for sure. I would also say at that conference, there’s going to be some things that I think tie into that directly. So you’ve obviously got Stephen Porges there, and he’s going to be obviously talking polyvagal theory and actually rolling out some strategies to sort of recreate that safety, right?

Robert Lustig, MD:
Both Stephen and his wife Sue Carter have been instrumental in us basically coming up with this hypothesis.

So a colleague of mine at the Université de Cergy Pontoise, so this is a university about 17 miles northwest of Paris in the French countryside called Cergy. His name’s Professor Philippe Gaussier. And Philippe has a really interesting and unusual skill set. He is both a neuroscientist, he studies the hippocampus. He is also a robotics professor. And his job is to get robots to behave more like humans so that they will be more acceptable to humans. Okay.

So obviously with AI, there are real questions about that. But nonetheless, if you’re going to get robots to behave more like humans, you have to understand emotion. All of the AI people are working on modeling the anterior fossa, the cognitive portion of the brain. We were interested in modeling the posterior fossa, the emotional part of the brain. And what we learned was that the amygdala is really the determinant because it’s the part of the brain that takes in the information and integrates it into either fear conditioning or chronic toxic stress. And understanding the gates was very important.

So we have actually modeled the human amygdala in a computer. We have a computational model of the amygdala, and we’ve actually been able to discern the biochemical basis of addiction, the differentiation between depression and PTSD and numerous other little side projects. And so we’re very excited about this and I will demonstrate how this works at this talk in October.

James Maskell:
Well, I’m really excited about that, and I’m glad you mentioned the vagus nerve too, because something that I’ve become very excited about, mainly because I recognize that in the world that I’m in, a lot of people who are looking to heal can do the lifestyle, can do the food change, can do the going to bed early. But there’s still this something where the regulation of the nervous system hasn’t kicked in and you don’t get the full resolution.

Robert Lustig, MD:
That’s exactly right.

James Maskell:
Oftentimes this vagus nerve thing comes right at the end of the care cycle because everything else hasn’t worked. And one of the things that we’re going to be talking about at that conference, and actually not just talking about, but actually participating in, because the thing about vagus nerve healing is that it’s participatory, like chronic disease reversal. And that if you could put that at the beginning of a healing process because it is wiring so much of the body, could it speed up and the whole process? That’s the thesis, I guess.

Robert Lustig, MD:
I couldn’t agree more. I mean, basically, James, you hit so many different touch points with me on that. This interception, the feeling of safety that comes from within the body up to the brain starts in the GI tract. The afferent vagus is taking information from the gut and transmitting it up to the nucleus tractus solitarius, and from there the information then gets waylaid up to the amygdala.

And so fixing the gut via the afferent vagus is actually essential for being able to influence virtually any of these mental health problems. And of course, this is why the Integrative Medicine and Mental Health Conference even exists in the first place. This gut brain connection has turned out to be extraordinarily important, both from an infection standpoint, neurotensin et cetera, but also from the afferent vagus neurotransmission standpoint.

And there are a lot of people working on this, obviously, Emeran Mayer and many others. And we understand this, and you are right that cognitive behavioral therapy is good for certain things, but it doesn’t actually fix what’s going on inside your body. And until you actually fix what’s going on inside your body, you’re not going to get better.

James Maskell:
Beautiful. Well look out for a Vagus Fest, a celebration, a participatory celebration of the vagus nerve happening at IMMH 2. I’m really excited about that.

Part of the reason this came up, Doc, is I realized through writing a book about group visits, that group visits could create the kind of safety for people that they were missing because the doctor could prescribe it and do it. But I thought most people being in a group wasn’t really aspirational. It sounds a bit like AA and something that I don’t want. And it’s interesting to give people an experience of participating in their health, collectively can open people up to the fact that there is value in healing with other people, and that’s where we’re headed.

Robert Lustig, MD:
So the contact, the connection is serotonin, and serotonin is one of the things that is breaking the amygdala. So it is necessary, but it’s not enough. And so what we’ve learned is that serotonin and oxytocin together are sort of the witches brew of amygdala suppression and reduction in arousal. And you need both. And if only one is working and the other one is not, it’s not enough.

James Maskell:
That’s interesting. It comes back to the last time we were hanging out. I just gave my talk at that conference last summer in London, and I come off the stage and I was talking about group visits, obviously, and you came to me and you said, it’s about serotonin. And now that we’ve had this discussion, I’m triangulating or quadrangulating you a little bit more clearly now because I understand what you were saying.

So thank you for taking me there because it’s really helpful for me to understand what’s happening biochemically. And look, I think this is a very exciting pathway for your next educational journey because seeding the food revolution is key. And as you said, there are other people to take that on, but I think you’re hitting into the core of the matter.

Robert Lustig, MD:
Yeah, well, the problem is this is a very big problem. It is so big that it’s bigger than any one person. It’s bigger than any one person to fix, but it’s also bigger than any one person to understand because there are so many threads.

And while Daniel is a master of understanding the social philosophy of this, he doesn’t necessarily understand the biochemistry and other people who understand the biochemistry don’t necessarily understand how the application works. And so we need everybody together. We need everybody together to cogitate on this and to promote their inputs so that we can build the structure together that will actually make this work.

But the biggest problem, of course, is getting an unsuspecting public, that has actually been taken off the rails by the dark forces of industry in an effort to generate profit, back to what’s really important. That’s going to remain the biggest challenge.

James Maskell:
Beautiful. Well, Doc, thanks for sharing this and look forward to supporting your efforts. For people who are listening to this, the Integrated Medicine for Mental Health Conference, it’s IMMH.org. I’ll be there, Dr. Lustig will be there. We’re going to have our cameras there and it’ll be the November Functional Forum. But we do hope that you can join us in person because you can capture a little bit on video, but it’s about being present, participation, the knowledge that you gain, the connections that you make, and I’m very excited for this conference to come back around and really grateful to Kiki for leading this and taking us on this journey.

Doc, thanks so much for being part of the Evolution of Medicine podcast, for your continued work. I look forward to seeing you in October and thanks so much everyone else at home for tuning in. This is The Evolution of Medicine podcast. We’ve been with Dr. Robert Lustig. Look forward to seeing you next time.

Subscribe

RSS Feed

Download

Click here to download this podcast

music provided by intomusic.co

0 Shares
Tweet
Pin
Share