Michael Fishman is a top advisor on marketing and business growth, aiding successful health and wellness companies. He leads the Consumer Health Summit (CHS) annually, which is now in its 24th year, and acts as an angel investor for over 20 health and wellness businesses. With his expertise, he advises his clients on how to effectively formulate their brand messaging and ensure it is communicated consistently, from training team members to sharpening taglines and from online messaging to in-person trust. In this episode of the podcast, Michael shares with Kristen Brokaw the principles and psychology behind his guidance.

Tune in if you’d like to learn more about:

  • How and why you need to develop a powerful tagline
  • Avoiding overselling or “trying too hard” in online marketing
  • Ensuring that your message cannot be misunderstood by your audience
  • Why patients also need to feel understood—emotionally and intellectually
  • And much more!



Growing Your Functional Medicine Business with On-Point Messaging | Ep 280


James Maskell:
Welcome to the Evolution of Medicine podcast, the place health professionals come to hear from innovators and agitators leading the charge. We cover the latest clinical breakthroughs in health technology, as well as practical tools to help you transform your practice and the health of your community. This podcast is brought to you by the Lifestyle Matrix Resource Center, who provide a range of options to help you deliver successful, effective, functional, and integrative medicine. To find out more and to get started, go to goevomed.com/lmrc. That’s goevomed.com/lmrc.

Kristen Brokaw:
Well, hello, Michael Fishman. I am so happy to be here with you today.

Michael Fishman:
Hi, Kristen. Honored to be here. Thank you so much.

Kristen Brokaw:
All right. Well, let’s tell everybody a little bit about you. So, you advise other businesses in the health space on consumer-facing products and companies, correct? And you lead the Consumer Health Summit every year, which has been going on for a long, long time. Then you also act as an investor, and you buy equity in some of these companies and angel investing and so forth. So, why don’t you expound upon who you are?

Michael Fishman:
Well, I appreciate that. Again, thanks for the honor of being here with you. You got it that you really nailed it there, really. Those are the three pillars of what I do. I have equity in 22 companies as an angel investor or an advisor. So, I’m very grateful for that. I’m not a professional investor, but those just come to me because of relationships and how I can help early-stage companies.

I also advise, as you said, founders, men and women who have founded consumer-facing brands and platforms, in supplements, in apps and wearables, and food and beverage, if it’s healthy, and home diagnostic testing, things of that nature. Then I lead and curate the founder community called Consumer Health Summit, which are same types of businesses, ladies and gentlemen who have wellness and fitness businesses that serve consumers with solutions and products.

Kristen Brokaw:
Excellent. So, you’ve been in the health industry a long, long time?

Michael Fishman:
For over 30 years. So, the last 22 or 23 in eCommerce and, prior to that, about 15 in offline direct response pre-internet.

Kristen Brokaw:
Okay. So, you said you advise these leaders of these consumer-facing products. What kinds of things are you advising them on?

Michael Fishman:
Yeah. I appreciate the question, of course. Mostly what I would put under the umbrella of messaging. So, that is the voice of the brand, that is the tagline. The tagline really creates like a true north compass heading for the congruency of the voice, the congruency of all other messaging and language and copy. Even the congruency of product development and who to hire.

Tagline itself is a little bit of a dismissive sounding phrase, but it’s extremely important because it is a congruency test, it is a compass heading, it is a declaration, it is a promise. So, I’m advising really on messaging and brand and voice and then how to execute on all the consumer facing touch points from customer acquisition to onboarding the customer onto the brand or onto the platform to customer retention to the unboxing experience, if there’s a physical product that ships out.

So, really making the end-to-end customer or client experience exquisite, wonderful, and securing and maintaining not just transactions but relationships. And having people not only get the promised result and the efficacy of the product or solution but just a fantastic feeling and a range of positive emotions about the relationship. Once you give them a great story to tell as human beings, they can’t help but tell it. So, having happy customers is having happy storytellers as well.

Kristen Brokaw:
Well, that’s exactly right. I know you work with doctors—and you have, you work with many—but you’ve worked with lots of physicians. So, what would you say that the physicians you’ve worked with were doing wrong? Or where did they need to improve? Because they probably have pretty busy practices, so one might say, “Well, do they really need to do much if they’re just busy?” But how can you help someone? What were they doing that you helped improve?

Michael Fishman:
Well, just to support those listening at the highest level, would you be referring to what they’re doing in clinic or what they’re doing online? Because I think that’s important.

Kristen Brokaw:
I would say both. So, if you have a different answer for both, let’s cover both because I’d say a lot of doctors have an online presence. They need to know what they’re doing. I’d say a lot of them don’t even like doing that, or they outsource that if they are even doing anything online.

Michael Fishman:
Yeah. Well, in clinic there is, of course, that one-to-one interface. That one-to-one relationship, and I think doctors tend to automatically edit their language or manage their language so that they’re speaking to a lay person in a way that that person can understand. In other words, they talk to their patients probably different than they talk to their practitioner colleagues. So, I wouldn’t point so much to what is ineffective in a clinical setting other than to say that, of course, you always want to speak to someone, as not only a healer, but a scientist to speak to people in words that they can understand and never assume that they understand any of the clinical or scientific language, those kinds of things.

But it’s funny because when practitioners move over to their online platforms, and they don’t yet have that one-to-one relationship. And they are maybe have an online course or are selling supplements or just generating a tribe, generating a community, whether they’re doing their writing or someone’s doing the writing for them. There tends to be a “trying too hard,” if you will, where trying to prove validity, prove credibility, prove all those things. Or particularly when selling a product, to really get into the science a little bit too deeply, more deeply than most consumers, most lay people are prepared to understand or assimilate. Even the smartest people in the world, if they break a bone, they don’t ask the orthopedic surgeon for the torque and the physics and all the physics of the bone repair. They just know the bone will be repaired. And no one says to the orthopedic surgeon, “Take me through the physics of what you do.”

I like examples that are a little bit extreme because they illustrate and make us smile and make us laugh. But when we are selling supplements or when we are selling other kinds of products or solutions, practitioners tend to try a little too hard either on their own or at the encouragement of a copywriter or a marketer to go deeply into the science. I think it’s important to remember that, yes, a lot of people have some preexisting fluency in science, like biohackers tend to be fairly fluent in those kinds of things.

But for the most part, people want to know, are the ingredients safe? Does it have integrity? Can I trust it? And will it do its job? If you’re going to explain the science, do so by literally through the website. But the metaphor is “hold their hand” and be really rigorous to explain words that they may not know. So, that would be my first sort of guidance.

Kristen Brokaw:
Okay. So, I do think a lot of physicians think that they have to explain every detail to someone. It’s interesting I see some of these patient facing companies out there that are doing well, even in the supplement space. I think because they’re telling a really darn good story. You know, I’ve actually heard you say, “don’t just communicate well, but be impossible to misunderstand.” So, I think we should talk about that because that’s kind of what you’re saying, right?

Michael Fishman:
Yeah. Thank you, Kristen. There’s a great point there and one that it leads to as well. So, the two criteria that I talk about, whether there’s a practitioner involved or just a company in the space: don’t be easily understood. That’s not good enough. Be impossible to misunderstand. Because here’s the thing, a lot of times when we use vocabulary or words from the medical glossary, if you will, if people don’t understand the word, they don’t fault the person or the brand that put that word in front of them. They fault themselves because every human being is always scanning their environment all day long, just unconsciously for the evidence that affirms their feelings of insufficiency.

That could be, “I’m not smart enough. I’m not handsome enough. I’m not athletic enough. I’m not whatever enough.” So, we always want to be mindful not to trigger that psychology in people we’re talking to in clinic or of course online. We want to be impossible to misunderstand, and that’s the level, that’s the rigorousness that enables people to feel connected to us when we speak to them and not ever get concerned that they are insufficient because they didn’t understand what you were saying.

The other piece is you want them to understand you, but you want them to feel understood by you. So, understanding you means I understand every word you say but at an intellectual level. But feeling understood by you means we speak the same language and we pretty much use the same words when we have a conversation. So, if somebody uses the word optimize, which you see all over the health space, optimal health or optimize your health or those, most people, I think, understand what that word means, but no one uses it. I’d be surprised if anyone ever came into a doctor’s office and used the word optimal or optimize.

So, it’s intellectually understood and it’s an intellectual connection, but it’s not a heart connection. It’s not that TLC, it’s not the bedside manner, it’s not that connection from healer to patient that really cements and deepens and grounds that relationship. The language is very important to be impossible to be misunderstood and for the practitioner not only to be understood, but for the patient or client to feel like they feel understood by the practitioner. It’s not hard to achieve, but once you can appreciate and really embrace those concepts, I think, you’re home-free and every practitioner, every doctor has the facility to manage themselves in that way.

Kristen Brokaw:
So, what should someone say instead of optimize? Like just feel your best or feel better. Expound upon that because I’m sure they’ll still have more questions.

Michael Fishman:
Well, I think, maximize would be about as… I wouldn’t go past that, but just to be your best or let’s get you healthy again. Let’s get you feeling great again. Let’s get you to a great place. Just something just very conversational.

Kristen Brokaw:
Right.

Michael Fishman:
It’s not a lot different than what you would say to your neighbor over the backyard fence or in the driveway or at the gym or over dinner. People feel understood when you speak the way they speak. So, it’s not the… Needless to say, it’s not the language or a conversation of a medical conference from peer-to-peer. So, it’s just really having the compassion. Everyone listening to this right now, I know, has purpose. The currency of success for them is impact, is healing people. The community that you have, Kristen, are such wonderful, heartfelt practitioners. They’re looking at root cause. They’re looking at people’s lives. They’re looking at people’s lives and not just putting band-aids on things.

So, those are the same kind of people that speak with compassion, that want to be understood, that would never want to confuse anybody, that would never want to leave anybody in confusion. So, I know that your community have that commitment, every one of them. And so this is just a way for them to deliver on that commitment, not only to have efficacy of what they advise and treat, but to have the compassion for people to feel acknowledged and feel understood just by managing their speaking in that very simple way.

Kristen Brokaw:
I think you’re giving physicians permission right now. I really do. I think that they do feel like they’ve got to earn the right with someone and sounding smart. So, all doctors, you’ve been given permission to speak at a second-grade level, I guess, that’s how they say it. But you also say, having a sense from the patient that they’re understood. So, how would a clinician know that that patient feels understood by them?

Michael Fishman:
Well, I guess that’s a fantastic question. It is a fantastic question. Well, once again, you have a community of really aware, really sensitive doctors, practitioners, healers. I think you can tell when you’re with somebody one-on-one, when that discomfort… Obviously, sometimes people are facing serious stuff. It could be anywhere from a checkup to a real concern. But at the same time, you can tell when people are at ease. You can tell when people… You can feel the professional chemistry from doctor to patient. You can tell when someone is even expressing themselves emotionally. Particularly with new patients, I would think, this is something that needs to be established. If you’re seeing somebody for years on end, that’s already been well established.

But I think when you’re doing intake, if that’s the word, bringing someone new into the practice as a patient, that’s the kind of rapport that would be established. Of course, right up front, so that people feel comfortable, so that people feel acknowledged, not just their symptom, but their emotions, their fear, their concerns, their questions. I know also a lot of your practitioners are spending a little bit more time, some a little bit more, some a lot more, than what we hear about the traditional seven to 10-minute visit.

Once again, what goes hand-in-hand with that is a little bit more of an inquiry into, “Okay, I hear you have migraine headaches. What does your life look like? How are your relationships? What is it like at work? Is there something that you haven’t communicated to somebody in your life?” You know what I mean? The kinds of things that can generate different symptomatic conditions.

Kristen Brokaw:
It really sounds like asking about that emotional side of things too, that people don’t typically maybe lead with. Maybe a little easier for women sometimes to do that, but even asking the gentlemen those types of questions. But when you and I spoke before, you had mentioned, there’s a lot going on for a patient, like in the subconscious mind, like in our limbic system, that we’re not even aware of.

But what is it that a patient’s looking for when they go into a clinic, or when they enter a website for a practitioner, or when they meet with that doctor for the first time? So, it maybe, what consciously are they looking for? Maybe, what is subconsciously happening for us as humans when we’re in these types of situations as we’re going towards what we deem as an expert to help us with our issue?

Michael Fishman:
Yeah. Well, I’ll speak from personal experience, I’m not a professional advisor in this particular question. But what I mean, when people’s schedules are honored, when the office is running on time, when there’s an impeccability. This is a different area of healthcare, but let’s just talk about dentistry for a second, just as a comparison. People go to the dentist because they have to, very few people love it. But the leading edge in dentistry is pain-free and the experience is almost like a going to a spa. That’s the kind of practices that I’ve been involved with and as a patient, and it completely transforms the experience so much so that, I think, they have patients that look forward to going to the dentist, which is the universal thing almost nobody wants to do, but they do it anyway.

So, I think turning these visits, whether it’s for a checkup or for a specific concern that the office be impeccable, that the team be hospitable, that the schedule be working on time, that the magazines in the waiting room aren’t three years old. It’s simple, but it makes a difference. As you pointed out, Kristen, there are things that people notice and there are things that people don’t notice, but there’s just an experience like a wave that washes over them when they walk in there, when they’re sitting in the waiting room, when they’re sitting in the exam room, waiting for the doctor. When they’re with the doctor, is there… I think impeccability in the physical environment puts the limbic resistant at ease.

Because you’ve heard the phrase, “how you do one thing is how you do everything.” If things are sloppy, I think it immediately generates concern whether people are aware of it or not, but you want to remove all considerations from their awareness and from their fight or flight limbic response so that the brain is at rest and that human animal experiences a feeling of safety. Probably anyone listening to us right now can even say that better than I just did. But that’s the experience.

And here’s the other thing that’s really important: that the staff in the office all be on good terms with each other and there not be any discord in the office because that shows up. The most rigorous scientist, I think, could appreciate that when there’s discord in an environment there’s energy there that people can feel. So, it’s just like a culture of any hospitality, culture of a restaurant, culture of a medical practice or a healthcare practice. The staff need to be cool and great and honoring and appreciating each other so that anybody that comes into that practice, let’s say, it’s part of the feeling of safety and it’s irrefutable. So, that’s a big thing that gets missed a lot.

Kristen Brokaw:
Oh boy, do I know that? I’m in offices a lot, and I can tell when I feel like the front desk person is incongruent with the message of the physician. But I know it’s difficult to get people right now. I really think that’s a good point to hit home on that you’ve got to almost have a team meeting every morning to put everybody in the right place until they are.

Michael Fishman:
I’ve been to offices and asked the question of a lady or gentleman working at the front desk, and the answer might be, “Oh, they don’t do that here.” Well, who’s they? You’re a part of a team. They separate themselves from the place where they’re even working. So, you immediately feel the discord or the disconnect or that the fragmentation just in the team. There are team members sometimes—and once again, probably not true of anyone listening to this, but I’m sure your community can appreciate—there’s sometimes discord between the doctor and her or his team. And you can even feel if they’re underpaid or underappreciated or under whatever. That shows up as well. So, having a physical and energetically impeccable space is everything.

Kristen Brokaw:
Awesome. Okay. So, let’s go back to that question that I asked earlier about online. So, we’ve talked about physical, walking into a space, the energy that I want to have in my office. But, what about their online presence, or when they’re on Facebook? Or how do they need to be taking this impeccability, impossible to misunderstand? How do they take that there?

Michael Fishman:
Thank you. And as you pointed out, I’ve advised a lot of practitioners on their online activities, their entrepreneurial activities beyond the clinic. A lot of them are New York Times bestselling authors and household names certainly in your community and even in the country. Of course, if you’re building a community online and you’ve got thousands and sometimes millions of people following you on social platforms or email, 99% or more will never meet you as a practitioner. But whether you’re speaking to a thousand people or a million, it’s a one-to-one voice. So, there’s this nuance and there’s this balance. People want to know that they’re a part of a community. There’s comfort in numbers. It’s an acknowledgement. It’s called social proof, when people know that other people have made the same choice they’re making.

So, you’re in a group of people, thousands if not millions, that also trust this lady or gentleman doctor. But for the doctor, for the practitioner, speaking to 10 people or to a million people, it’s a one-to-one voice. So, if you get on there and say, “Hey, everybody.” All of a sudden, as a viewer, I feel small. It’s the equivalent of me being in a stadium and trying to connect with whoever’s on stage. If there’s 50,000 people in the stadium, it’s hard to feel connected to the performer or the speaker or whoever. So, whether it’s blog posts, just in writing, in videos, in podcasts, you’re speaking to one view or you’re speaking to one listener.

It’s just in a very natural way: “Good morning. I hope everything’s well where you are. I’m speaking to you today from my office in whatever town. I hope your family’s great. Here’s what we’d like to share with you today.” It’s just a really one-to-one voice. It could be a million people, but it’s one-to-one. There’s no illusion for that person that you’re speaking to them personally or that they maybe will ever meet you, but it creates that sense of a dialogue in a very natural way. That’s one thing.

The other thing is just to not… I mean, have a distinctive voice. I always say, “Identify your flag in the moon.” So, if you’re on the moon, which maybe, some of us will be one day, you put your flag down. Who’s there? Nobody, just you. It’s your point of differentiation. It’s your point of uniqueness. Now, your uniqueness could be your personal story or why you became a practitioner. Your uniqueness could be the methodology or the mechanism that you have pioneered or identified or discovered that has the efficacy that you have. There’s more than one point of differentiation, for sure: your story, your methodology, whatever it is.

Also remember, this is really key, I sort of pointed to it before: you could give the same message verbatim to 10 different practitioners, especially if they’re on a stage or let’s say video on a website. You could give the same verbatim message about whatever topic to 10 different practitioners. They will attract 10 different communities because even though the words are the same, it is the practitioner, his or her energy, physiology, caring, energy. The number one differentiator is not the methodology of how you do what you do. It is you.

So, before people are even willing to listen to you, both consciously and in their limbic assessment, they’re going to look for A, are you safe? And that’s a limbic assessment. No one ever thinks in terms of: “Is this doctor safe?” But the human animal via their limbic response has to make that assessment. Otherwise, they head to the hills on a website. They leave a website. It’s generally something limbic because before they’re willing to listen to the methodology, their limbic brain needs to tell them you’re safe to the human animal. And the prefrontal cortex needs to identify the relevance of the message. At which point, when the back of the brain says, “Green light, yes.” Front of the brain says, “Green light, yes.” What you’ve done is earned the right to say whatever you would say and to explain how you do what you do.

But the number one differentiator is the person, not the methodology. Assuming they want help with women’s hormones or help with headaches or help with strength training or whatever it might be. Obviously, they’re in that place generally for a reason, but they don’t go any further until their brain, front of the brain, back of the brain, marry up and say, “You’re safe here. It’s relevant. Give this person a shot.”

Kristen Brokaw:
Okay. So, on their website, is there anything… We talked a little bit about how you advise doctors on their brand promise, and I guess just being on brand. You mentioned that in the very beginning. So, is there something that they need to be doing with their website as well as their clinic, you know, making sure everything’s congruent? I guess I’m asking several questions here. How can a clinician truly work on their brand promise? What should they be doing in their brand promise? What does that even mean? Then, how can they be consistent with that?

Michael Fishman:
Well, I wouldn’t put anything on a website that I wouldn’t say one-to-one to a patient in the clinic. Once again, we’re not trying to broadcast, and we’re not trying to prove anything. We’re just trying to be, not only have some… Once again, there’s compliance issues. You can’t over promise online because then the FDA or whoever can slap you, and you don’t want that either. But it’s generally a compassionate message. Like there’s a pediatrician in Charlotte, North Carolina who is a functional medicine doctor. Her name is Sheila Kilbane.

And many years ago, we worked together to create a message for her. And the message became… This was the headline, right front and center, at the top of her web page: Let’s get your child thriving again. And she works with kids who have generally real difficulties, chronic stuff. Let’s get your child thriving again. Now, whether you’re in a neonatal intensive care unit where thrive is really virtually a medical term: Is this baby thriving? Or even into toddlers and young kids, thriving is a word that gets used between doctors and patients. Or doctors and the parents of the patients, we would say with pediatrics.

So, let’s get your child thriving again. It’s just a very conversational, very friendly, very compassionate, very result-oriented statement. That alone, I know, generated a lot of activity, not just in Sheila’s online presence but in her practice because it’s so compassionate. And it’s a great example of not only understanding the doctor but feeling understood by the doctor. Because what more could any parent want but that and articulate it just that way.

Kristen Brokaw:
It’s really interesting to hear you say that because I have looked at some sites that do a lot of telling us who that clinician is and all of the accolades that they have but less about how they can help me. It sounds like that’s what you’re saying is we need to make almost, like you said, a result-orientated promise or something that’s really applicable to me as a consumer.

Michael Fishman:
Well, look, a lot of practitioners put five or six sets of letters after their name, most of which, you know, the visitors to their website have no idea. After MD, most people really don’t know. Unless they have some fluency, they generally don’t know what a DO is, an ND. A lot of times they don’t know what a DC is. That’s unfortunate, but it’s accurate. Then all the other kinds of letters, all the other designations, which are wonderful achievements on the part of their practitioners. But the preponderance, the proliferation of all those designations and degrees and achievements can be confusing because it just reminds people that they don’t know what it means, and people don’t like to feel insufficient.

But look, the other thing is no matter how many awards or designations or they spoke at this conference… The most important thing is bedside manner. Nothing replaces it. Look, if you’re going for a surgery, of course, you want to know that doctor has done the surgery 3,000 times. You never want to be in the first hundred and you don’t want to be the experiment. So, of course, track record, years in practice, definitely matters. The kinds of things that enable people to trust, some of which are facts and figures and some of which is just emotions and caring.

Kristen Brokaw:
Right. Well, I really appreciate your time here because I feel like this is given, again, permission to clinicians to, first of all, speak to the patient the way you would talk to your neighbor across the fence. I think that’s just the best advice there. And when you are using your voice online or speaking to a group, speak to one person. I can already put myself in the shoes of that listener and see how that would impact me as opposed to being just like one of many. You even talked about having providers create this brand promise with this result-oriented mentality versus how many letters I have behind my name, what can you do for me.

Michael Fishman:
Yes, Kristen. Look, here’s the other thing to acknowledge. There are a lot of online personalities that have no doctorate of any kind that can really equip themselves really well with respect to the science. And they’re not reviewing your labs, and they’re not prescribing drugs. But they’re very, very fluent in terms of… They don’t overstep their bounds in terms of how they advise people. Some do, but most don’t. But these days, the most important…

Here’s another thing for doctors as well: the most important way to establish credibility… Of course, if you have a doctorate, fantastic and congratulations on your achievement. What’s even more powerful many times or equally as powerful is your personal story. Why did you choose this profession? What did you possibly overcome that had you decide, “I’ll be darned if I’m going to let anybody suffer the way I suffered”?

And a lot of people go to medical school for that reason. Either they or a family member dealt with something, sometimes for a long time, and it illustrates or it shows that person their purpose. They find their purpose in helping others to not experience what they or their family member went through, and it becomes their mission. So, when you have a website, the most frequently visited page other than the front page, the homepage, is “about us” or “about the doctor.” Share as vulnerably as you can right there, and that’s a huge connection point as well.

Kristen Brokaw:
Oh, that’s great advice. That is excellent advice. Yes, I have a dear clinician friend who had two sisters in her office, and she could tell that the patient who was there was not maybe—was just holding back or not, I don’t know. There was more to it. So, she told her her personal story in a minute or less, and the sister who’s sitting next to her supporting the other sister said, “That’s it. I’m making an appointment here.” And I think that that needs to be shared a lot more. So, thank you for reminding us all that we’re all just humans who have stories and just want connection and, like you said, want to be understood.

Michael Fishman:
Yeah. And yet, whatever profession that patient has, they could have five PhDs, it doesn’t matter. What they also know is that you’re smarter than they are at health and restoring health and diagnosing this thing that you’re afraid about, whatever that is, so you’re always dealing with someone who’s coming to you as an authority. They may be a world class authority at what they do, but they don’t know what you do. They don’t know what you know as a practitioner. So, there’s always that dynamic that potentially could end up feeling like superiority or smarter than you or any of those things, and you just want to disable that right away. It doesn’t mean you don’t have your mastery, your wisdom, your expertise, but that comes through. It comes through partly when it is married to your compassion and your caring and your interest in them as a human being and not just someone with a set of symptoms.

Kristen Brokaw:
Yeah. You couple that with an office that is congruent and impeccable, and the staff are friendly, and you’ve got a patient for life who’s going to tell many others about you. Well, thank you so much. I think you have given us so many things to think about. I appreciate you, Michael Fishman. I know your Consumer Health Summit is an invite-only event. But if someone would want to find out more about you, how would they be able to do that?

Michael Fishman:
Well, thank you. Thank you, Kristen. This was a real honor and a pleasure to visit and chat. The best couple ways would be either… My DMs are open on Twitter and Instagram. Michael Fishman on Twitter. The Michael Fishman on Instagram. There’s an application link at consumerhealthsummit.com. For practitioners, it’s important to have something beyond the clinic to participate, to have admission into Consumer Health Summit because that community, our founders, some are doctors. But in every case where there is a practitioner, they have founded an app, they have created a wearable, they have a supplement line, something of that nature. Because a lot of them have either de-emphasized or exited clinical practice, which it’s not right or wrong, it’s just what they’ve chosen to do because they feel they want to touch more people with what they’ve got. So, the practitioners that we do have tend to have businesses beyond the clinic as well. So, just something to keep in mind.

Kristen Brokaw:
Excellent. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

Thanks for listening to the evolution of medicine podcast. Please share this with colleagues who need to hear it. Thanks so much to our sponsors, the Lifestyle Matrix Resource Center. This podcast is really possible because of them. Please visit goevomed.com/lmrc to find out more about their clinical tools like the group visit toolkit. That’s goevomed.com/lmrc. Thanks so much for listening and we’ll see you next time.

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